How to change/update an Enduring Power of Attorney - advice welcome please

[Gonegrey31]

I would welcome guidance from anyone able to help please. My elderly mother has an Enduring Power of Attorney in place (I think it was set up in about 2008) but I believe this should be altered or updated to the new system of both Financial and Health and Welfare POAs. (I am trying to find the original POA which is probably with my sister, who is unwell herself at present). Do I have to start the whole process from scratch or is there a simpler way of simply updating the forms?

For best advice , I suggest you telephone The Office of The Public Guardian. I found them really helpful. As well as advice, they will probably be able to send your mother a copy of the documents already held. She may have to request this herself.

Just re do it. On line yourself. Cheap easy effective and will supersede the last one.

However the old one will still stand should your mum not want to read do. Also if there is any question that she may have slightly iffy capacity don’t change as you could end up without and that’s very sticky involving court of protection etc.

Yes, talk to OPG.I'm currently doing the same for us.

If it was EPA, then

1. OPG told me that it isn't registered until the person loses capacity.If they haven't lost capacity, then it won't have been regiestered and if it hasn't been registered it doesn't need to be revoked, but it should be destroyed or the new LPA attached to it. I suspect if you can't find it this is less important as no-one else will be able to find it either.

2. EPA is finance only so need to chase around looking for a health one. And obviously you can set up LPA Health and Welfare with no more ado.

But this is important stuff, so ring OPG who are very helpful. Don't take my word for it. I'm posting only to reassure you that it doesn't seem as difficult as one fears.

As PP says EPA doesn't have to be replaced. I'm doing it because I understand LPA, (I've forgotten all about EPA) and it allows flexibility like you can set it up to be used while you still have capacity (I looked after my father's savings while he dealt with day-to-day stuff).

But if you do decide to go ahead, then you do have to start "from scratch", you can't convert. But LPA is not difficult, and there are good guidance notes.

And of course LPA Health and Welfare will have to be done from scratch.

Thank you all, really helpful guidance. I'm most grateful.

Worth checking if the EPOA will actually be of more use to you. My parents have the EPOA and I could start to use it to manage their affairs before they had lost capability. Very useful in these tech-heavy days and with people who can’t hear the phone very well to give authority for you to speak on their behalf.
My dad’s EPOAs is now registered with the OPG as capacity has been lost but I continue to manage my mother’s finances (and have a debit card on her account) via an unregistered EPOA.
Your post does however remind me that my task this month is to sort out a Health POA for her.

@MMAMPWGHAP

Worth checking if the EPOA will actually be of more use to you. My parents have the EPOA and I could start to use it to manage their affairs before they had lost capability. Very useful in these tech-heavy days and with people who can’t hear the phone very well to give authority for you to speak on their behalf. My dad’s EPOAs is now registered with the OPG as capacity has been lost but I continue to manage my mother’s finances (and have a debit card on her account) via an unregistered EPOA. Your post does however remind me that my task this month is to sort out a Health POA for her.

Are you sue about that? I thought the EPA didn't come into effect until capacity had been lost and that it couldn't be registered until capacity was lost, whereas I have certainly been managing my dad's affairs under an LPA jointly with him while he still had capacity, having selected the option on the LPA that allowed that to happen.

Don't know about England but in Scotland financial Power of Attorney can definitely be set up to be in place before someone loses capacity. My dad has just amended his: it was previously set up to be me (in case he was abroad, as he is pre Covid regularly, and something needs to be done re his finances) but he's changed it so that it's still me but should something happen to me, his lawyer and my db (who lives in France) are back-ups.

The one that doesn't get formally activated until capacity is lost (but needs to be registered?) is the Welfare one.

The EPA is fine for finances, you just need a health LPA. If your mum would like to add more attorneys or replacements, take the opportunity to make a finances LPA. EPAs tended to just have one or two attorneys and I’ve seen a few people where their attorneys on EPA have since died.

....which reminds me, dh and I really should get ones set up for ourselves

Mum and dad got theirs set up literally just before a holiday in India where my mum had an accident and my dad had to start the process of activating hers (as it was she maintained/regained capacity for a bit before declining again as a result of her head injury )

@kerosene20

The EPA is fine for finances, you just need a health LPA. If your mum would like to add more attorneys or replacements, take the opportunity to make a finances LPA. EPAs tended to just have one or two attorneys and I’ve seen a few people where their attorneys on EPA have since died.

Can you use an EPA before capacity is lost?

Damn, wrong group. Too many open tabs. Have asked MN to remove.

Think this has already been added but you can add on the health and welfare LPA without revoking the EPA. No need to revoke the EPA provided the attorneys are alive and well, also that is reflects wishes still.

I'm in England. I have an appointment to speak to my mother's solicitor this morning. Again, I appreciate these responses.

Yes it can be used immediately after being made and only needs to be registered when the donor has lost mental capacity.

Quick google, from a solicitor’s website:
The main difference between the old EPA regime and LPA's is that an LPA must be registered with the Office of the Public Guardian before it can be used whereas an EPA can be used from the moment it is signed and is only required to be registered once the Donor loses capacity.