MIL's expectations about granny flat

[RhinestoneCowgirl]

DH and I have recently returned from a visit to MIL's home city, we live 200 miles away and stayed with DH's younger brother and wife as MIL is still not happy with having people to stay in her house (covid related). It has come to light that MIL wants BIL and SIL, who moved into their first home about two years ago, to build a granny annexe in their front garden for her, she would sell her current house to pay for it.

As a background MIL is in her early 70s and in generally good health, she had cancer 15+ years ago but is fully in remission. Pre-pandemic she was full-time carer for her own mum who lived next door, but now other family members have taken this on and she isn't involved in her mum's care at all at the moment. MIL has been extremely anxious about covid and I think her MH has been poor. She can be quite a challenging character and has just one close friend who lives locally. She divorced from FIL nearly 25 years ago.

While we were visiting I had a long chat one evening with SIL, who I get on very well with (and she and BIL are fab with our children). SIL is very unhappy about the prospect of this proposed granny flat project, but says that BIL feels that he owes this to his mum and can't say no. I think it is causing some strain in their relationship. DH seems to be sticking his head in the sand about it, and has made non-committal noises when the subject was raised.

My own parents are a similar age and have no expectations of me providing care for them - we have had some roundabout discussions. I realise it's different for MIL as she's on her own, but I wondered how reasonable it is for her to have these expectations?

I think it's very very unreasonable. Your Inlaws have just moved in to their first home and his mum wants to basically move in with them in an extension in their front garden? Never in a million years it's not all about her. The young couple have a right to their own life and she has no right to decide anything about their home. The son is not thinking straight, it will destroy their lives and they will be left with it all. Your sister in law needs to put her case strongly and say she's not having it, in the same way that she wont be taking her own parents in when the time comes. No we need privacy and our own space as you had and repeat. I think sometimes parents forget that their children are no longer children.

If my DH did that I’d take the kids and leave!

I'd encourage your SIL to be very firm in telling her Dh that she will not agree to this, that she will not be involved in MILs care and that he and your Dh and any other siblings better sit down and come up with a better plan for their mothers future care. And if your BIL and your Dh etc don't accept that your SIL doesn't want a granny flat in her front garden, then I'd encourage your SIL to run for the hills. I might even run with her if I were you as you could be next in line to be MILs carer.

This could cause huge problems of your mil needs to move onto a care home in the future. In that case her home can be sold to fund the care. If she is in a granny flat on your SILs property then they may have to sell and divvy up the profits

Ask cab for links to all the proper information on this. It doesn’t matter if it’s 20 years down the track - they can still trace the money back.

I’d get all the correct information and approach it from that angle. Sorry mil it is a huge financial risk for us and we know you wouldn’t want to cause us that kind of stress/ make your grandchildren leave their home.

Do they have retirement villages nearby? I’m not in the uk but my dad has just moved into one. He is in his own 2 bedroom unit but the village has higher levels of care if he ever needs it and in the meantime offers lots of group activities plus he can buy in meals if he needs them, have someone check in on him if he ever needs surgery and is recovering etc.
I’d be making it clear that the granny flat was a no go but suggesting other moves she could make to plan for old age.

I totally agree. Your DSIL needs to put her foot down and tell DBIL that he needs to sit down with his siblings and talk through how they're going to tell DMIL that she isn't moving into a granny flat at their home and offer some alternatives, like a retirement village.

Also agree that if he won't tell his DM that the Granny Flat is a no go, she needs to tell him it's her or his DM. As much as I love my DILS, there is no way that they're moving in here.

It is only reasonable if SIL and BIL volunteered, they had discussed it with MIL and if it was agreed. Since it's none of those MIL has an unreasonable expectation.

It is for BIL snd SIL to talk and decide how they are going to tell MI that it's not an option.

There are plenty of sheltered housing places around and some extra care schemes (sheltered housing for those needing care package but with 24 onsite carers for emergencies) - she should put her name down for those as they'd be similar (but paid carers) to living in a granny annexe

MIL could live another 20 years.

If she puts her money into an annexe in SIL’s current house they are effectively pinned down to that house for 20 years or else accommodating MIL in any future property moved.

Any range if opportunities might come up in that time!

Your DH needs to acquire some Reality and speak to his brother, and face this like a whole family, rather than leave BIL to face MIL’s guilt tripping alone.

Thanks for the replies everyone, it has strengthened my resolve and I know that DH has to step up to support his brother in this. I particularly appreciate those who have had personal or professional experience of this.

MIL has no awareness of others boundaries, and it is becoming obvious that DH and his brother have to have a proper conversation about this. Because MIL was long time carer for her own mother, she sees it as her right to have the same from her children. But we can see the demands that this caring relationship placed upon her, and it did change her relationship with her mum.

Quite apart from the practicalities of a building project (which in planning permission and finance terms sounds very complicated and potentially impossible) this has brought into focus MIL's expectations. It's going to be a pretty tricky set of conversations, but they can't be avoided any further.

Yesterday 20:36 BunnyRuddington

I totally agree. Your DSIL needs to put her foot down and tell DBIL that he needs to sit down with his siblings and talk through how they're going to tell DMIL that she isn't moving into a granny flat at their home and offer some alternatives, like a retirement village.

Also agree that if he won't tell his DM that the Granny Flat is a no go, she needs to tell him it's her or his DM. As much as I love my DILS, there is no way that they're moving in here.“

Agree. My MIL began commenting years ago about how dreadful it was that people put their elder relatives in homes.
I quickly made it very clear to my husband that fond of her as I was, I would not be involved in caring for her in future. He was of the same mind thankfully and he communicated that to her.

Your MIL is being totally unreasonable, she can’t just demand this. If l was your SIL then l would run for the hills! I would also be wary if l was you, as you’re probably the back up plan… She cared for her mother in a very hands on way but it doesn’t mean people can or will for her

Because MIL was long time carer for her own mother, she sees it as her right to have the same from her children.

Dollars to doughnuts it will be your SIL, not her own two sons, who is expected to pick this up. It's seen very commonly. Plus she won't want her sons wiping her arse, when it comes to that, so SIL will cop it.

Point out all the issues with property ownership as mentioned above. It would be far better to find her sheltered housing.

Ray of hope - I don’t think it’s that common to get permission to build in the front garden, so they may find it’s not an option anyway ?

What the MIL is not realising is that these days, with mortgages being so very expensive, is that both people need to work full time just in order to pay the bills. So SIL will not be at home during the day, will not be there for companionship or care if it should come to that. She would be far less lonely and better cared for in a retirement / sheltered complex. And it would be better to move before she is too elderly. Get some brochures, and present a united front.
It's far better to be a DIL than a carer, your relationship will change for the worse if you take on carer duties.
My mother moved nearby when she was getting older, and never forgave me for not being there every day or being her carer. I had a job and 2 DCs to raise with a DH who worked away. But she felt it was my duty as the younger daughter. (Still stings, even 13 years after she died).

I only know of one person whose Father lives in an annexe. He is well in his 80s and is an absolute delight. He looks after the garden and his allotment, has lots of friends, plays a musical instrument and goes away for several months at a time.

I very much doubt this will be the scenario for your SIL if your MIL suffers with anxiety, is a difficult lady and only has one friend. She's in good health now but may not be in ten years. The fact that she expects this to happen is very worrying indeed. Will she also expect dinner every night or to be sitting between them on the sofa watching Corrie?

My Mum's greatest wish would be to move in us but DH has already said he would leave me if that happened. We are singing from the same hymn sheet as my Mum probably winds me up more than him!

Interesting thread. I'm conflicted about letting my MIL live in an annex with us. She also said she'll give £100k towards it.

Please talk to your SIL yourself to support her.

Not a good idea
SIL must speak to her dh about her misgivings as this could cause problem particularly as MIL is quite challenging

What do you expect to become of her when she’s frail? She is family snd she won’t be around forever.

The two brothers (and yourself snd SIL) need to come up with a plan for if and when she needs it. I don’t think your husband can get away with noncommittal noises??

I agree there needs to be a plan. But also agree the plan is not the annexe.

Are there any retirement complexes near her existing home that she could move to, which have a porter/staff to keep an eye on the residents? She might meet some new people that way too.

I guess it’s easy for your husband to make non-committal noises given that it’s not his house MIL is planning on moving into (essentially, I appreciate an annexe isn’t quite the same but it’s not far off)
SIL needs to speak up, and make it clear she isn’t happy with this proposal.
My own mum is about to move in, apparently temporarily, with my brother and my sister in law and it’s already causing so many problems. I wouldn’t say it would be worth the risk to my relationship myself, but it was down to them at the end of the day. I know SIL is deeply unhappy about it tho.

My parents moved my Nan into a granny flat at their house in the last years of her life and it worked very nicely.

She was frail but compos mentis and not requiring hands on care but her property had become unmanageable for her.
She kept and rented her own property so she could have gone back if it didn't work out or sold that property if she needed care and she paid towards the conversion out of savings but not the whole price as it was adding value to my parents house too.
She had such a great time choosing all the furnishings etc and she loved her little flat and largely kept herself to herself there and didn't want to be with my parents all the time so they had their own space.
She paid her way with bills as she was always an independent lady.

Crucially it was quid pro quo and by consent
She had always lived locally and had done an enormous amount to help out with her grandkids whilst my parents worked and we had now grown up and flown the nest and my parents retired so they had space and time and they wanted to give back for all she had done.
She was my mum's mum but my dad loved her a great deal too and in fact she had even helped care for his parents who were 10 yrs older and had died by then so it was something everyone was happy with.

My point is that it can work but the people concerned have to ALL be signed up to it and think through carefully all the finances and the ground rules or it will be a disaster. Not sure it would have worked so well in a smaller house or with young kids.

Care villages and flats can cause issues, tend not to sell well, a bungalow or flat is a far better idea.
She needs friends too, shy can’t expect this from her son

Funnily enough now that I remember nana had always hinted about moving in and my parents rebuffed her until the time was right for them.

They knew it would not have worked when she was fit and well in her 70s as she would have been interfering with their parenting and running of the house all the time (she was lovely but she did have her own ideas and she would have had no hesitation in undermining them!) and she had her own place and her own life and didn't really need it.

10 years later when they had the time and space and she did need a smaller place with people on hand it was the right time.

For a woman in her 70s she could downsize to a future proof bungalow near her family (but not in the actual garden!) and still keep some more independence. Older peoples groups and clubs are opening up more after the pandemic now and maybe it's a chance for her to make some friends and have her own life a bit.

We are looking to buy a house in the next few months. My mum (80) was all excited wanting to sell her house and give us the money so we could buy a bigger house and all live together.

It would never work for many reasons. My siblings told me not to do it, and said they would not either. My children were not keen, to put it mildly.

So my DH took her to visit various retirement properties in our town which she looked at with not much excitement - until one ground floor flat with a garden and a warden took her interest and we talked about how coming to live in our town would be good for her (hospital, public transport, cinema, theatre, a club for her particular hobby) rather than her rural village 10 miles away where she will be stuck as soon as she has to give up driving. It would be good to move while she is still fit and healthy.

Now she's very happy downsizing her possessions and waiting for the move.

We are fortunate in that we can lend a little money so that she can buy the empty flat and move without having to wait for her house sale to complete, and will avoid the stress of a move on moving-day in a chain.

We will live nearby but not in the same house.

OP your SiL must be worried that your BiL will let his mum move in. Maybe do like us, get together and suggest a pleasant alternative. Good luck with this, you sound lovely and it's kind of you to think of your SiL.

I doubt planning permission would be granted for such a property.

What is effectively a small bungalow on the front lawn, plumbed in and heated?

That's not going to happen.