Are DFs savings safe if DM moves into care?

[rozzyraspberry]

Hi

DM has vascular dementia - advanced although my father is still caring for her at home. She is relatively young (70) and physically
well, but a hand full.

As well as a joint account they also have individual savings accounts (over £23k).

If and when a care home is required for DM will my DF portion of joint account and his individual savings account be left untouched or would he be expected to top up care fees once DM savings are exhausted?

In the local authority where I live finances would be assessed and use her savings and spilt the joint account 50/50. As long as he remains in the home it wouldn't be counted. If she's self funding she would be entitled to claim attendance allowance. His savings wouldn't be touched unless he choose a home with a third party top up.

Sorry didn’t mean top up - I meant take over all costs of care once DMs money exhausted

Also they don’t own their home, so that’s not a consideration.

Lots of info on here

www.firststopcareadvice.org.uk/downloads/kbase/3092.pdf

There are phone numbers for age concern & a link for paying for care at the bottom of the nhs site
www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/paying-for-your-own-care-self-funding/

It would be 50% of anything joint taken into account then his savings in his own can't be touched.

If they own their home they can't touch that unless he then also goes into a home.

He would be well advised to move his share of the joint account in to an individual account. Someone reported on here that mother was self funding on the basis of her share of joint account; when her money ran out, they went back for reassessment, and LA would not accept that all money in joint account was now dad’s - they still treated half of it as hers.

He would be well advised to move his share of the joint account in to an individual account.

As his wife is already unwell, that could be seen as intentional deprivation of capital. Better to rely on the rule that states joint accounts are split 50/50, than do something that will prompt further investigation.

Once she is in a home, he can move his share as there will be a clear record of what is each of theirs.

How could it be seen as deprivation of capital when it’s not her capital?

Perhaps, to be precise, the accounts should be split into one in her name and one in his.

But yes, no need to do it before the assessment, best to wait till after the assessment. As you say, don’t do anything inviting further investigation. The assessment is stressful enough without spinning it it. One thing you can do without when arranging care is any extra paperwork

Social Services may turn up at some point on a pretext and suggest your father 'move into a smaller home' as it is easier for him. This may be so, but the reason they suggest it - as automatically as a McDonald's server says 'Do you want chips with that?' - is because it frees up capital that can then be accessed for care home fees.
They will target the house - and the spouse!
Also, however, if a dependant in knocking on into their 60s and not a spouse is living in the family home (ie the adult 'kids'), I read somewhere that they can also struggle to access it. That law may have been changed.

I would be surprised if Social services turned up out of the blue and tried to a trick like that Newspaper.
It would be very dodgy if they did.

Social Services may turn up at some point on a pretext and suggest your father 'move into a smaller home' as it is easier for him.

OPs update says there’s no owned house - so that’s one concern sorted, at least!

Thanks everyone.

DM is under a guardianship order and I need to prepare annual accounts, so splitting the joint account now and having to somehow split their living expenses in half over two accounts is more than I want to deal with right now!

Good idea to split it after the assessment though when living expenses will be separate.

@Sheerheight

I would be surprised if Social services turned up out of the blue and tried to a trick like that Newspaper. It would be very dodgy if they did.

Well, Social Services wrote the book on 'dodgy' - in Surrey at least, and likely in neighbouring counties I understand. Another one they play is, to the family, 'Would you like to get your parent back [to the family] home?' We got this three times, usually after we'd supposedly been exonerated on bad behaviour or relations with the care homes, so it's like they're doing you a favour. Turned out they had no such intention of allowing that! Esp if you're self-funding, and so subsidising Council-funded care home residents to the tune of several hundred pounds a week - there's nothing in it for them! No, they ask that so they can re-interpret your comment and make out that therefore you are likely to 'abscond' with your parent - a very serious allegation that can allow them to bar you from the care home! Esp easily done if you didn't know to get LPA in Health and Welfare, as it means the State is then the decision maker for your parent's care, not you!

They can also use the oddly drawn out process of pretending to consider whether to allow your parent go ahead with their return to 'engage' with the family - in other words, stitch them up! Otherwise, they don't have a pretext.

As you said, Social Services don't quite do it out of the blue - they need a pretext or jumping off point, and it's usually under the guise of 'offering to help'. Like the local Mafia, they come as your friends.
They won't want you to have your guard up.

Even when Surrey were pretending to allow Mum back home after dreadful behaviour from a Reigate care home (behaviour we later found via a Subject Access Request to the Council was fully authorised and approved in advance by Surrey's Social Services!) the social worker appointed tried that one on Dad at the very family home she was supposed to be considering letting Mum return to!

Boiler room scammers could learn something from them.

Another thing to consider is both of them paying for their funerals up front before any financial assessment takes place.

Around here at least it's taken to be a required expense and not a deprivation of assets.

@BunnyRuddington

Another thing to consider is both of them paying for their funerals up front before any financial assessment takes place.

Around here at least it's taken to be a required expense and not a deprivation of assets.

Very sensible to pay upfront for (as long as seen as reasonable costs) funeral plan. And it is sensible to equally (50:50) split joint savings into separate accounts, once one of spouses/ partnership has moved into carehome . That ways it's far easier to demonstrate whose money is what.