Care home fees when the money runs out

[portocristo]

Hi my mum is 84 and has alzeimhers , she is currently in respite care but will definitely need to go into full time care at some stage, my question is if we sold her house to pay for care what happens when the money runs out ? Thank you in advance

Have you had a Social Services assessment ?

Currently having this with MIL. Council pay a certain amount, they take her OAP pension, then we have to top it up.
They can’t sell the house until she’s dead.

Your dm needs a financial assessment. If you contact your local authority adult social care department they will have information. I know when we looked at this for my MIL, I recall something about if self funding, and the funds run out, the LA then continue paying the fees up to a certain amount.

@GoodnightGrandma

Currently having this with MIL. Council pay a certain amount, they take her OAP pension, then we have to top it up. They can’t sell the house until she’s dead.

The house can be sold if she has capacity.

She wouldn’t and hasn’t.

Does she have Attendance Allowance?
As I read somewhere if the person going into a home has it they still receive it if self funding for care home.

This was when I was looking at care homes v care into the home via carers for my parents. We are struggling along with the carers at the moment and found a great day centre, both of which they self fund for but later this year I will have to apply for council assistance for them.

I sincerely hope we dont get the the point where the proceeds of the house have gone because I wont be able to afford to top it up.

Look online on your local councils website
You should contact them a few months before her money is going to go down to the threshold for help which is about £24000.
They’ll do an assessment and if they agree her needs could only be met in a care home they have a responsibility to pay and ensure her needs are met. (She’ll still have to pay a contribution, how much depends on income but it will be all income minus a small amount each week for toiletries etc).

I’m afraid they’re not obliged to keep her in the same care home. If it’s a more expensive one than they would normally use they’ll either want to move her to a cheaper one, or ask if family can make up the difference.

So unless she has enough £ from the house to cover her more than likely for the rest of her days, I would recommend asking prospective care homes if they take the LA rate (without top up) or asking LA for a list of homes they would fund, then you’ll have peace of mind she won’t have to move for financial reasons.

The money won't 'run out'

Once the value of her assets/ savings drop below £24k then she will be eligible for financial support from the local authority.

They will complete a financial assessment which will also take into account her income and she will being to pay an assessed contribution towards her care rather than the full cost.

Initially this assessed contribution may still be the full amount, and whether that reduces down as time goes on will depend on how high her income is.

The difference is that the 'full amount' when it's funded by the local authority is usually less than the 'full amount' when it's a private arrangement with the care home.

They can’t sell the house until she’s dead that's not strictly true, whilst it's often easier for them to agree to put put a charge against the property so whenever it's sold they get their cut first; they don't have to agree to do it that way and can request that the home is sold.

SS said something about claiming back money from the house when it’s eventually sold.

No one is obliged to top up
And they should not be asking anyone to top up unless they can present an alternative option where top up is not required.
They have a responsibility to ensure needs are met.

@GoodnightGrandma

She wouldn’t and hasn’t.

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-care/

There are different circumstances regarding this. Some LAs place a charge on the property, which is possibly what your MIL has done. My point was she could sell her house if she chose to, not that the council can sell it whilst she is still alive.
If the house were sold now, you wouldn’t be in a position of having to top up her fees, they would all be paid from the proceeds of the sale. It’s such a nightmare sorting it out - we went through this with my MIL 2 years ago.

@GoodnightGrandma can’t they force the sale?

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@GoodnightGrandma can’t they force the sale?[/quote]
They aren’t going to, it’s already been a legal action to get her put into care.
They said they will claim money when the house is sold.
Unfortunately my DH has agreed to top up without having a discussion about it with me.

Yes you can have an arrangement where you opt not to sell the house, the LA pay fees up front then reclaim the money when house is sold as they put a charge on it. But they do charge interest for this. It’s called a Deferred Payment Agreement. Can be useful in some cases or where a property doesn’t sell in the 12 week period or if you want to rent it out but I’d recommend getting financial advice. (If social services are involved you get 12 weeks where property is not taken into account for the financial assessment as obviously it takes time to sell it)

The house that isn’t being sold will need to be maintained while she’s not living in it.
It’s just a nightmare and not what I would have agreed to if it was my parent.

The LA does a financial assessment taking into account all assets and income. House is included in the assets if not needed for either the person or their elderly partner to live in. LA then says how much they will contribute and how much the person needs to contribute. How you/the person actually raise the money is up to you.

If you can't raise the money without selling the house, and you don't have authority to sell the house or don't want to for some other reason, it is possible for the LA to put a charge on the house, so that they take the entire financial contribution once the house is sold.

If the person is entirely self-funding, no LA contribution at all, they may be able to get attendance allowance. But if the LA is making any contribution, then they can't get attendance allowance if they're in residential care.

So to answer the OP, if Mum goes into a care home, she would start by being self funding, paid for by a combination of her pension and attendance allowance, with the rest being paid for by sale of the house. Once the funds are down to a level of lasting only a few months, then you would seek a financial assessment and the LA would pick up the payment, (and Mum would lose the attendance allowance, and they'd also take most of her pension).

The only snag is if she's in a more expensive home and one which the LA wouldn't normally use, in which case they'd either want to move her to a cheaper home or ask you to make up the difference, hence the suggestion to check up on this first.

When people say when the money runs out the LA pay so much then the family need to top it up or pay the rest, what about older people without children or families? I don’t have children and I’m genuinely worried about this.

If there's no family or anyone willing or able to pay a top up fee then the resident may be moved to a cheaper home.

That’s why I said no one has to top up
Of course lots of people don’t have relatives or relatives don’t have the means to.
Sadly some LAs can make families feel they have to step in but there is no obligation to.

Of course that can mean the person may have to move to a different care home the LA will fund in full.
If there is no cheaper suitable alternative then the LA will have to stump up the fees.

Often care homes will negotiate and charge LA residents less than private funders.

Obviously there’s also a whole debate about private funders ‘subsidising’ people who are funded by the LA but that’s a different debate.

I’ve dealt with a home where they were charging £1300pw to the person. When they were transferring over to LA funding they were happy to accept our rate of £750 so family were not faced with the prospect of topping up or the person moving. Not all homes do this though. Why would they if they think they can fill beds at £1300pw.
It’s a very local thing as well and depends on the market where you are.

Talk to AgeUK. They will go through everything clearly and give you written information. They also give advice about power of attorney and all things related to caring for elderly relatives.

From a social services perspective we see this quite often. Some People expect social care to keep funding people in very expensive care homes. Put themselves in and expect to continue living there when the money runs out. No one wants to move a confused person from their lovely care home but there is only a finite budget so can happen.

@Sweetchocolatecandy

When people say when the money runs out the LA pay so much then the family need to top it up or pay the rest, what about older people without children or families? I don’t have children and I’m genuinely worried about this.

Start researching homes that the LA will support, and pester your MP for the government actually to sort out the social care system. At the moment they're not bothered because they think not enough people care about it.