Elderly Dad being asked to pay brothers care home fees

[EbbandTheWanderingHearts]

My Dad is 86, his sister 88 and brother is younger so maybe 84. Brother had a fall, was in hospital then discharged into a nursing home. Brother has no savings and, for some reason, no access to his money. The nursing home has written to my Dad to ask him to sign responsibility for the fees! £775 a week! I have told Dad that he has no legal obligation to pay anything. He can't afford that and any savings he has needs to be available if he ever needs care.

Does anyone know who I can speak to to get advice? Adult Social Services? Surely the care home has no right to ask my Dad to pay? If my Dad/Aunt gets POA then I assume they can access my Uncles money? As far as I'm aware he was on benefits for years, no property etc. TIA.

Social Services. Don’t agree to anything with the home.

No they can't ask him to pay. Adult social services is a good call.

And tell the home that you’re not paying, and that they should also contact SS from their end.

This always happens. We had the same for my husband's dad. We never signed it and said they had to wait for the house sale. I think it's standard procedure.

Redirect to social services. Good luck

Thank you! My Aunt had called me yesterday worried that Dad was going to sign something so hopefully I've managed to stop that. I'll try and get hold of Social Services.

In the first instance you might need to speak to the CCG as they probably commissioned his placement and funded a six week or so package. Ask the home who agreed the placement.

Then speak to social services. They should have been involved in discharge planning. Your father should not sign anything and has no responsibility for care home fees.

Speak with home and ask why they’ve requested this. If your father doesn’t have deputyship he is not liable. It’s entirely unethical, so also go to CQC website and report. Who else have they done this to? How many elderly spouses have been put under pressure or been frightened by these tactics?

In terms of ongoing funding, don’t be pushed into accepting deputyship because that can leave you or your father with financial responsibilities you don’t necessarily want. Think carefully before agreeing to it.

If no joy from social services help desk, make a safeguarding referral for your uncle. He is at risk of either the home trying it on with finances when funding short term will have been agreed by CCG or of losing a longer term placement.

What involvement has there been around his placement? Is there a suggestion it’s long term? Who made that decision?

Sounds dodgy practice.

As a side note, at those ages they all need to have a POA

Yes at your DFs age you should have power of attorney (and then could deal with this if he did for some reason agree)

I work for social services. If I was on duty when you called in I would want to know the following:

Who placed him in the home and is it intended he stay there long term
Does he have mental capacity (it will be assumed he does unless assessed otherwise) - does he have any dementia?
Does anyone have power of attorney for finance (and health but less relevant for this situation)?

Family have no legal obligation pay anything but if your Dad is his power of attorney then are the home asking him to access his brothers money to pay? It could be that.

If no one has POA and the brother cannot manage his own finances (sounds like this is the case) an application to the court of protection will be needed - someone/more than one will need to agree to be the deputy. Social services can advise and he will need a mental capacity assessment completed for the application.

Application can take months to come back. In the meantime, whether your uncle is sitting on a house and a fortune will be irrelevant as social services will have to fund the care (we call this COP funded) while the application is in progress, this money will be clawed back once access to the funds is sorted. If he has no savings/house just his income, social services will assess what he should have been paying since he went in, claim that and the going forward he will have to contribute £xx client contribution and they will fund the rest.

We might also do an assessment to see if he is in the right placement - often people are discharge from hospital to nursing when they will only need residential (cheaper) and we will want to be sure no one (us or client) are paying more than needed for a placement.

The home should know better than to do this, but they could be under the impression he has a property to sell (does he?) which immediately makes him a self-funder even if he does not have access to any money. Or they may have approached social services themselves - they usually do if they are not getting paid! - and been told he should be a self-funder with no one actually looking into it deeper.

Just re-read - I see he has no house to sell. Still if he has any mental capacity issues it might well be too late to get POA now and it will have to be the court of protection.

I wouldn't assume that as he was on benefits he has no savings - I've had many clients who on the face of it you'd think would be penniless but they don't have high overheads etc and have build up thousands!

There is no requirement for anyone to act as deputy. The local authorities ask families to appoint someone, but nobody has an obligation to so do. The local authorities can themselves apply to appoint, but don’t because it’s expensive to do so.

Having a property doesn’t automatically make you a self-funder is someone else is living in the home eg a spouse. It’s far more complicated than that. The home acted unreasonably and must have known they were so doing.

It comes back to who arranged the placement and on what terms.

He might well want to go home but feel unable (not allowed) to do so. That being the case his wishes need consideration and assessment of the viability of that should be made.