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Elderly parents

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Original poster

What would you do?

19 replies

Finnyhaddock · 09/06/2021 09:34

I don't really know what to do here. So my mum has very severe MS but is completely compus mentis.
She has lived in a beautiful care home for almost seven years and is doing very well. She is only 76 and could hopefully live for a lot longer.
She is a narcissist and has been very difficult all her life. I'm an only child with a disability myself which means I can't work. My husband is self employed and luckily we are comfortable but not wealthy.
So when she first went into care we paid the top up to the tune of £30k and too late realised we hadn't actually needed to pay it at all because the care home she was in was the only one which could cater to her needs.
She received some back pay and I took £14 k from that - in my mind as part of the pay back towards the £30k and in her mind as as a back up for her should she need it.
As daft as it sounds she is a big spender - some necessities like the pads she wants to use and some physio and expenses on her property and some pure wastage and luxuries. She has always been quite mean with money and domineering and I don't have POA and she is adamant she won't give it. I'm fine with that as her mind is one of the few things she can control.
So we have now sold her property and after the deferred payment has been settled there should be about £40k.
She owes us money for recent expenditure which I don't think she will agree to reimburse as she sees it coming from the £14 k we were 'looking after'.
Btw she was charged deprivation of assets on this.
So here is the dilemma and I'm sorry it's taken so much back story but I thought it was necessary for the full picture.
I would like to 'look after' the difference left between £14k and the profit on the property - I see this as repayment for the third party expenditure which we shouldn't have paid and money owed.
This would then require the council to reassess and hopefully the deprivation of assets would only be counted against her one year but tbh I don't know that for sure and can't find any info on that. That is what happened last time.
So what would you do in my situation?

OP posts:

lljkk · 09/06/2021 09:36

What does "look after" mean -- you keep the interest earnt by investing it somewhere?

Original poster

Finnyhaddock · 09/06/2021 10:07

It's just in an ordinary savings account -

OP posts:

Knotaknitter · 09/06/2021 10:42

What would I do in your situation? Give mum the full proceeds from her house sale and stop "looking after" her money. Social services have seen it all before and will look on it as an attempt to hide assets. If the back pay was a refund of the top up that shouldn't have been charged then why didn't that come straight back to you if you'd been paying it?

Your relationship doesn't matter, how she spends her money doesn't matter - the house proceeds belong to her and she can do what she wants with them. You don't have POA and she's competent to deal with her own affairs, the money is not yours.

QioiioiioQ · 09/06/2021 12:47

It sounds like it might be better to be completely financially separate from her?

Original poster

Finnyhaddock · 09/06/2021 13:40

I can't be financially separate because she simply doesn't have enough to meet her needs/wants.
I am annoyed that we were misled into paying a huge amount which we could ill afford at a time I was very ill and desperate for her to be cared for properly.
In hindsight I should have put my own problems to one side and investigated more thoroughly but I was so at such a low point in my own life and with her I just wanted the situation taken care of.
But as Knot has said the money is hers. The history is a separate matter and so I will just have to accept the situation.

OP posts:

QioiioiioQ · 09/06/2021 13:44

It sounds as if she's stitched you up?

doodleZ1 · 09/06/2021 13:57

Is there no way you can get some of the £30000 reimbursed to you if paying it was a mistake in the first place? Ie it was the only home that she could have went to so there was no need for you to pay top up fees? If your mum thinks your recent expenditure on her behalf was out of the £14000 I would do that. If she's capable as you say why did you pay for these things anyway for her? As regards moving forward you say your mum has expensive tastes but can't pay things herself. Are there any benefits you could apply for on her behalf or even on yours? Eg attendance allowance for yourself as you are not in great health, it's not means tested. I would work out as best you can your mums financial position but I wouldn't be paying her bills going forward unless I could see her finances for myself and make a decision based on that. She wants to keep her finances to herself let her, but don't use your money. Apologies if I've misunderstood any of this

doodleZ1 · 09/06/2021 14:00

Not sure what you mean by she received some back pay?

GooseberryJam · 09/06/2021 14:47

I would seek legal advice about your position re the deprivation of assets case. You don't want to find yourself on the wrong side of that and I honestly can't work out the ins and outs of the 30K top up business.

Take back the money you've recently spent on her behalf from the £14K. Keep clear records of this, e.g. hang onto receipts for whatever it was.

I can't be financially separate because she simply doesn't have enough to meet her needs/wants.

Then she will need to reduce her spending, unfortunately, just as you or I would. If she has full control of her own money, all you can do is point out that it has to last her the rest of her life, when it's gone it's gone, and you are unlikely to be in a position to help her.

redastherose · 09/06/2021 14:52

If you paid the money out to keep her in the home then the refund was yours to keep. You are not looking after her money you are being reimbursed for the care costs you expended on her behalf. Likewise, if you paid £30K and have received £14K back then she owes you £16K from the sale of her home, which means she has £24K left to fund her own care.

Tell her that the top up was a loan not a gift and one you could ill afford. Likewise tell the Council that you loaned the money to your Mum to pay for her care until her property could be sold.

doodleZ1 · 09/06/2021 14:59

What Redasarose says.

BarefootHippieChick · 09/06/2021 15:18

In agreement with the last 2 posters, and also as Gooseberry said, your mum needs to cut down on her spending. She's an adult, and if she's perfectly able to take care of her own finances then it won't be your job to bail her out if she spends it all unnecessarily.

Original poster

Finnyhaddock · 09/06/2021 15:55

I have always bailed her out.
She has never been in control of her spending or much other stuff and quite honestly she only thinks or cares about herself.
The back pay was from something else. Not the top up or the council and last time I explained it was a loan they didn't take any notice and counted as deliberate impoverishment.
I feel for her. She is very physically disabled. More so than me. She has never been maternal but in her way loves me.
She won't listen to reason. I don't want to cause trouble but neither do I like the feeling I have been 'stitched up'. This stitching up was also the care home who I have had a huge dispute with. And I might add this was because I could no longer afford to pay, not because I was trying to get money back which would be impossible.
It was my fault for not setting it up properly: my mum didn't help matters.
I just wanted to know people's thoughts on what I should do with the proceeds of the sale.

OP posts:

Original poster

Finnyhaddock · 09/06/2021 15:57

And...she becomes very agitated at the thought of having no money so I have promised that whilst we can we will always make sure she has what she needs.
And her needs are expensive.

OP posts:

BarefootHippieChick · 09/06/2021 16:04

The problem is...she's only 76. Health issues aside, she could be around for a lot longer yet. Can you afford to keep her in the manner to which she has obviously become accustomed for the foreseeable?

She's your mum, I get that, my dh and I would always help my parents if we could, however, I know they would never demand anything. Tbh your mum sounds like a child who doesn't like being said no to.

Either you tell her firmly you can no longer help out and she will have to survive on what she has left, or you grit your teeth and put up with it as I don't see any other option.

BarefootHippieChick · 09/06/2021 16:08

Also, if you feel you are definitely owed money from the house sale then definitely take it and explain to her why you have, just be careful there are no tax implications etc

ditalini · 09/06/2021 16:35

Unless you can somehow unpick this £30k payment you made then no, I don't think you can legally take any money from your mum unless she makes a gift of it to you.

However, you absolutely should not be paying one more penny of your families' money towards her wants/needs while she has money sitting in the bank. It would be completely reasonable to expect her to use any money that's being "looked after" for her for those costs.

QioiioiioQ · 09/06/2021 17:46

And her needs are expensive
And her needs WANTS are expensive.

EL8888 · 20/06/2021 14:05

She most definitely did stitch you up. If l was you then l would want that money back

@QioiioiioQ exactly. People easily confuse their own wants and needs. She doesn’t need to have the best of everything, she just wants them. Most people need to budget and cut their cloth accordingly. Why is she special and different that she doesn’t need to? Is your husband bored of bailing her out?

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