And so it begins...

[Missfelipe]

Posting for some much needed advice.

My parents are not elderly by any stretch (early 60s) but my father is not in the best health (not severely ill but a myriad of milder health issues that will no doubt culminate in worsening health - think diabetes, obesity etc) and my mother is old before her time.

My mother is the main issue here. She still works part time but if you never knew this you’d think she was a vulnerable old lady the way she goes on. She has a helplessness, probably wilful as opposed to learned and is totally reliant on my father for pretty much everything - organising life admin, cooking, sorting things like cars etc). When not at work she sits at home watching made for TV movies that I think affect how she thinks the real world actually is. As a result everything is over dramatised in her head and in some cases I think she actually invents stories for attention. She has no friends and no hobbies. Suggestions are met with excuse after excuse about why she can’t do something. She will say things like, ‘when your dad goes’ 🧐 and outlines her plans for when she assumes she will outlive him. I am not joking.

Recently my father has had to have surgery on his knee. Despite her being a fully capable adult, this somehow resulted in us (her adult children who all live a minimum 1.5hrs away) being manipulated into doing things for her she was more than capable of doing herself whilst he was in hospital. It gave me a very real look into the future and it filled me with dread. My siblings both have children and as the one who doesn’t, I can see the burden of this falling to me and it is not sustainable. The weeks before my father was up and more mobile and back to his old self where some of the most mentally draining of my life and this was a non-life threatening medical issue.

For those of you who have been there what should we be doing now to better prep her for the possibility future? Especially given that I don’t think she will take it on board and she is the sort of person that views any constructive criticism as a personal attack.

Hmm. A train with a suitcase and several changes may have felt daunting. How did your dad get to hospital?

I’m worried now. I’m 42. At what age do working adults lose the ability to catch trains?

In my mother's case, when she'd never caught one before and hadn't ever carried her own shopping. Never mind alone and with bags.

And nobody is sympathetic to little old ladies getting in their way

58 year olds are not “little old ladies” FFS - could you be any more ageist?

Honestly, I look at my colleagues in their mid 50s - NHS consultants and professors - and am amazed they are managing to hold down jobs, now that they are too old to manage buying train tickets. I expect their school-age children must buy their season tickets for them, and kindly strangers point them the right way on the tube each morning, when they get confused.

I’m even more impressed by the ones who do triathlons and marathons, I would imagine their bath chairs must get in the way.

Oh dear god. I am 58 (59 in a couple of weeks) I hate the way I feel sometimes reading Mumsnet. At my age if you are of normal health you can still do EVERYTHING.
I live alone as my kids are grown. Last big trip was to see my eldest in Australia, alone. Never been there before. landed in Sydney and then travelled to Melbourne. This is perfectly doable.
Your mums problems are not age related, they may be confidence or even CF related.

You could suggest to them that they move into one of these complexes that has apartments and facilities for people over a certain age. 55+, 60+ they have a variety of age limits. Then they will be in a position to access help if necessary. If he were to die, she would have company and help.

It seems as though it isn't necessarily her age, it's the fact that she wants your dad to look after her and take her places as though he is her dad, not her husband.

You really need to nip this in the bud. It snowballs severely.

@picklemewalnuts

In my mother's case, when she'd never caught one before and hadn't ever carried her own shopping. Never mind alone and with bags.

That’s not really an age thing though, is it? If she had never had to carry your own shopping before, it sounds like she had just lived an extremely sheltered life.

People carried their own shopping in the 1970s, you know. Back when people in their 50s were kids. That isn’t a newfangled modern thing.

@Booboobadoo reminds me, this is at actually about capacity. It's about insecurity and feeling appreciated/looked after.

I have a very ambivalent relationship with my mother. I've found some ways where she can feel looked after, while I haven't had to jump through hoops to achieve it!

[quote Ffsseriously]@MereDintofPandiculation i dont think its fair to say that those of us that objected would not ve sympathetic to others. I can assure you i am kind and pleasant to all. I think we and certainly i object to what feels like insidious ageism from some pp, and a playing to sterotypes if your older you cant use tech. Obviously some people this is true for and i wasnt in anyway suggesting that all people are similar[/quote]
I didn't say that those who objected to my post would not be sympathetic. I was referring to the whole tone of the rest of the replies. Yes, she can't be allowed to lapse into premature helplessness. But it may well be a difficult and scary process for her.

I know I've gone from being an early user of computers, programming from the early 70s, to someone who has been satisfied with the technology I have, only to realise that technology that I haven't bothered with because I had no need has morphed into tech doing other jobs entirely, and that some of the world has become unfamiliar to me. And that society's view of older females is not sympathetic - I'm not being sexist to say that, merely commenting on the sexism/ageism I see around me. And that therefore the OPs mum is in a situation where she may well be anxious in getting to grips with things.

And no, she can't rely on people doing everything for her, nor be allowed into manipulating people to make the offer.

I think people are assuming ageism in posters who are attempting to understand the perspective of a woman who is allowing life to close down around her as she ages, and is preparing for an imminent need for care from her DCs.
I have some sympathy with finding oneself having to do arduous, unfamiliar things and preferring not to. I don't have sympathy with expecting other people to tie themselves in knots to allow you to continue avoiding fairly normal tasks.

@randomer it is strange, I’ve never in my life been able to understand her. She’s always been incredibly old fashioned, wanted me to get a rich husband, thinks my Dad’s job is to provide for her. My siblings and I are the polar opposite, all fiercely independent, not reliant on husbands financially, adventurous, well travelled, street smart.

**And if she gets it wrong, responses to this thread demonstrate that she can't expect any sympathy.
This is the non sympathetic comment i was responding to. Apologies if i misunderstood.

@MereDintofPandiculation sorry it hasnt bolded.

shrug her shoulders and say ‘that’s just me

I think that you therefore need to engage less. If she says she can't do something eg online offer once to show her how to. If she says she can't tell her is time she learnt. If she she says"it's just me" tell her that she'll have to learn to do without.

The train thing is ridiculous - DH is her age and in normal times would be jumping on planes and zipping all over the place for work. London DC aged 11 are taking multiple trains/tubes/buses to school and back every day and through the big London terminals not small rural stations.

@Londonmummy66 the train thing is just a long list of examples of things she creates a fuss over. As for jumping on planes...she’s said her and my dad have probably had their last long haul holiday abroad now (they might be able to ‘manage’ Spain or something like that) as they are too old 🧐 I really wish I was making this up.

She sounds like she's keen to abdicate responsibility.
Some of it is fine. It's ok to decide long haul travelling isn't what you want to do anymore. It can be tiring, there are insurance implications as health issues crop up, and dealing with health dramas abroad is no fun. I can see someone may decide to stay closer to home in future. Same with the bungalow. We're expecting to move at 55, and will be looking for a house with scope to live downstairs if necessary, and a garden that doesn't need to be high maintenance. That's just planning- we don't expect to move again so it needs to work long term.

It's the stuff that requires someone else to step in that's problematic.

@picklemewalnuts you’re right, it’s up to her if she wants to live in a smaller world, but that shouldn’t mean that she can create an existence where she is abdicating responsibility for day to day tasks to the extent that she does almost nothing for herself.

This is very much to the forefront of my mind as in my 60s much of the past 20 years has been dominated by pointless worry about elderly parents. It is still going on now.Nobody tells you about it,the vocabulary around it,the things you have to negotiate and the fall out if things are complicated.If anybody wants to message me,I would gladly share .

I really feel for you OP. However, the fact that you recognise the dynamic that is in place, and that you need to take steps to not be manipulated is in your favour.

My parents have been divorced over 49 years. Both can be very needy, dramatic and manipulative. When lockdown first began I found myself doing all their shopping, chemist runs, errands etc.. This at the same time as my own child care and running a business.

In principal I was happy to help as I wanted them to be able to shield, but it got exhausting and they were constantly demanding very specific items at short notice.

Then I had to isolate for two weeks and all of a sudden both of them managed to work out online shopping and Amazon for themselves.

This really made me think, and since then I've tried hard not to fall into the trap of doing things for them that they are capable of doing themselves. Saying no can be hard, but it gets easier with practice.

She sounds like my gran, who has been saying she's old for the last 40 years (also a former nurse as it happens). It's been a self-fulfilling prophecy I'm afraid.

I don't really know if my approach will help because...well...it's very blunt.

My DM is the same age as your DM.

If she started to talk about downsizing to a bungalow I would say something along the lines of "Eh? Get your head together, you're the same age as Brad Pitt! Do you think Brad Pitt is winding down for old age already?"

Like I said. Quite blunt!

I have known a couple of women like this from work (however both were widowed) and they moved into sheltered housing at mid 50s. One into council and one into the private expensive type. They both thrived, lots of the older residents took them under their wing and effectively "mothered" them.

It seemed to be mutually beneficial.

I do feel sorry for you, OP. She sounds incredibly egocentric. As others have said there may well be things that she is unsure how to manage, as is true for anyone. Help her figure out those things if you can, but then step back and only do what you believe to be reasonable.

It's quite easy really you say "no".

Read up on FOG - fear obligation guilt and possibly toxic parents. Your Dad has pandered to and enabled her behaviour but it doesn't mean you are your siblings have to

You brush off her off and remind her how granny did x for herself into her 70s so you are sure she can.

Yes talk to your siblings and tell them that is how you are going to handle it and suggest they do the same.

FFS - could you be any more ageist? Oh dear - I'm referring to society's perception. There is little tolerance for an older women going slowly because she's doing something unfamiliar. I'm surprised you could misunderstand the comment, but perhaps you are not yet old enough to experience this.

Where did the "58" come from - in the OP she was early 60s, and it sounds as if she presents as being older than this. She has allowed herself to become less capable - she is not a NHS consultant who has been keeping up with changes in technology. She may well be scared of doing things that she hasn't done for years. It may be her own fault, and people may not have sympathy for her as a result, but that doesn't mean it will be easy for her to catch up.

Sorry, this is no help but as difficult as the situation is I do feel some sympathy towards your mum. Your post reminds me of my parents.

My Mum relied on my Dad for EVERYTHING. She left school at 15 to marry him (he was 12 years older) and have me and my and my siblings (the 80s not the 40s) she had never had a bill in her name, never driven on the motorway, never worked, she is also very anxious about doing anything on her own and she has no confidence around people (I think a lot due to her lack of education and lack of a life outside of looking after my Dad) she doesn’t have anything to talk about apart from TV.

I used to resent her for the way she was, but honestly, now, I’m more cross at my Dad for encouraging and enabling it. She is the way she is because she has never been able to live her life.

She is now a widowed 58 year old, living in a bungalow, acting like she’s 75.