Power of Attorney (financial) - what are the benefits?

[FruHagen]

So I am struggling to explain with real world examples to my elderly Mother (who we think has early stage dementia) the reason for her giving Power of Attorney (financial) to me and my 3 siblings.

I just can't come up with any compelling examples for her to understand what it is and why it's necessary. I have told her it means that people she loves and trusts can speak to financial institutions like the bank etc on her behalf but she just says "why the hell would I want you to talk to the bank for me. I'm not ga-ga"

Can you lovely people enlighten my poor imagination with some examples of why this matters?

If she had a fall and was in hospital, PoA means that one of her children could pay the gas bill / sort out a repair to the roof etc.

If a child has financial PoA, the child can organise & choose a care home. If not, the council might choose and choose the cheapest. Again, this might happen after a short hospital stay because often it is not possible to do rehab at home.

Are there any example in her circle of friends / relatives who had a hospital stay or nursing home care? Can you point out that they had PoA? Or find anyone else of her generation who has it.

My parents who are fit & well have given us (all 3 children) full PoA as an insurance against anything going wrong. I hope we won't need to use it for years, but it is good to have it in place.

Tell her it's in case she goes "ga ga"!

Hmm. Tricky one. As, obviously, any talk of care homes etc will garner the same response.

You could go down the "It will be a weight off our minds, we've all done them too* road. In fact, if you did all do them, you could just tell her you were including her and it wouldn't all be about her, but would be a thing you were all just doing. Because of Covid, or something

@eurochick

Tell her it's in case she goes "ga ga"!

This. By the time you need it, it's too late to sort it.

We sorted it with my parents. Hope we never need it.

Yes, the more I think about this, the more it makes sense. Every one of you should do an LPA.

Also, get her to do the non-financial LPA as well.

The way we put it to mum was that if, at some time in the future, she became too ill to manage her affairs we could step in and help. Without the LPA no one could pay her bills or speak to banks. It was for insurance, just in case.
She happily agreed and died ten years later with it unused. We did use the H&W though.

Actually DH and I did them as well. Adult DC named.

@eurochick

Tell her it's in case she goes "ga ga"!

In my (sadly too extensive) experience of people who are beginning to suffer from dementia, they have some secret inkling and so get very defensive of being told things like that.

Please remember that the donor needs to be of sound mind as per the mental capacity act in order to appoint a deputy / nominate a poa.

In terms of examples keep it simple like doing errands for her. Withdrawing cash, paying bills, moving / upgrading ISAs etc to get best value.

I told my DM that it was because the alternative is hugely expensive & involves Court. She's tight & isn't keen on solicitors, so that worked.

The Money Saving Expert article on this is useful.

Because there isn't usually fair warning between "With it" and "gaga"

Have you had conversations about her wishes if she does face limited mobility/stroke? Is there a relative you can hold as an example?

To be honest there is a whole raft of affairs to have in order with aging, from suitable housing and maintenance, transport, funeral arrangements, wills - if she isn't willing to discuss those then the conversations might need to be more incremental.

My DF always gets stressed if something goes wrong with his finances or a DD gets taken or a wrong payment. I explained that we could act for him so go to the bank and get it sorted save him some hassle, otherwise they won’t deal with us.
I also told him if you have it jointly with a sibling then you are going to discuss everything as a family.
Your mum can keep hold of it too or just stuff It in a drawer until it’s needed (or never)
Can’t tell you though how working in care it’s so difficult for those families without it to get once someone has lost capacity.

Reassure her that it is for a rainy day - it won’t come in to play unless she gives explicit permission or she’s not able to make decisions ie she’s fallen under a bus. I didnt mention the ‘gaga’ option to the In Laws, even though clearly that’s going to be the issue with FIL who has dementia.

It may be difficult to persuade someone that making plans for becoming 'ga-ga' , (as posters have so eloquently put it), is a sensible move. Who wants to think about that as their future?

It can be simpler/less threatening, to think about a future where, whilst recovering from an accident/stroke/major surgery/Covid , one is simply not up to making phonecalls to a bank from one's hospital bed. And so, the builders/garage/council tax people, who want their bills paid,and are not prepared to wait, may simply decide on court action/bailifs.
That would be an expensive pain, and without POA no one could help, as modern regs prevent these people speaking to anyone else.Unless, someone has POA, and can act as your personal assistant, until you can take the reins back yourself.

So, it can be simply a means of allowing a trusted relative to help you out, until and unless you're back on your feet.

This is not a fib, btw: people tend to think of POA as connected soley to an irreversible decline(and it often is). But the mental capacity to deal with your own affairs is not a fixed state: someone unconcious for a week has definitely lost mental capacity, but may later regain it.

It can be easier for elderly people to contemplate a temporary frailty, whilst thinking about an irreversible decline is stil too painful/frightening.

Ooh, good reasoning there @Evidencebased.

Some good ideas here. I wish my mum had signed POA, she wouldn't. Advanced dementia now, and since my dad's death I've been left with a complete mess. I have applied for Deputyship but it takes ages, maybe over a year.

The reason we finally sort poa for my grandma is a perfect example. She had a bad fall while doing her shopping one day and broke her hip, rehab was hard on her and she never regained her mobility fully. Her card got blocked and they needed her to go to a branch to have it unblocked, didnt do online banking or anything. It took 3 months to finally get her to a branch so she had access to her money again because she found it so hard and tiring to get there even with my help. I was buying her food at whatever else she needed during this time. The next time it happened, once i had poa, i popped down to the bank with the documents and had it sorted in half an hour

If she ends up in hospital for whatever reason you will be allowed to help with financial matters until such time as she is able to sort things out for herself. Without it the law has to be brought in.

Enormous help from everyone. Thanks so much. I can't believe how much incredible help I find on this forum. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

@yikesanotherbooboo

If she ends up in hospital for whatever reason you will be allowed to help with financial matters until such time as she is able to sort things out for herself. Without it the law has to be brought in.

I really don't think that that's the case.

Also @Candleabra I fear this is about to happen to us

Many good wishes to you

As long as she's lucid when she signs the LPA, it's legal.

Yes @Evidencebased no-one wants to think of that future, you are completely correct and this reminds me of why my Mum is resisting and what this all means. It's admirable and frustrating at the same time.

We didn't have POA for my DF, he was taken into hospital after a fall, he also had cancer. He lost mental capacity at a frightening speed. He was too poorly to go home so was going to have to go into a nursing home. My parents had separate bank accounts, we were unable to access my DF's bank account to arrange finances. It was so stressful in an already very stressful time. My DF sadly died before he even managed to get to the nursing home.

We didn't have POA as my DM didn't want us broaching the subject with my DF when he still had mental capacity as she thought he would get upset and thought we would be taking his independence away. However, she now knows how important it is and signed POA for her very soon after DF died. She still has financial independence but she knows that DH and I can step in if necessary.

OP- Sorry to hear this and it must be difficult. Does she still have enough capacaity now to sign it?

It needs to be explained in simple, day to day, situations. Most importantly, how you would it benefit HER?

Some examples I can think of:

• Mum, you still make all the decisions, but if you need some help in the future, and only IF, we will support that and abide by your wishes
• If you need some cash or bills paid, I can do that when I'm out already, rather than you having to drive to X/get the bus to X, find a park, queue at the bank etc
• If you need to call those dreadful call centres to pay a bill, report a fault with the electrics/water/gas etc I can wait on the call for them to pick up, rather than you have to bother with that.
• If you got sick in the future, we'd make sure you were cared for in the way you want