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Elderly parents
Original poster

Massive change in my DM :(

62 replies

Longdistance · 26/02/2021 20:48

I wonder if someone has had a similar experience with their elderly parent? DM is going to be 80 next month and she has changed beyond anything I recognise. I'll try to condense it as much as I can.
My db lives with dm and is her carer. He does an amazing job with her, all the care, cooking, cleaning, admin, appointments, even cuts and dyes her hair for her.
About three weeks ago DM was saying strange things, like she could see spiders and spiders webs (not the case as the house is spotless) and that she seen someone pulling up plants in the front garden (again not the case as there are a few plants, but they're all there).
So, cue to last week during half term on the Monday, I get a phone call from my db about DM is acting strange and she's been shouting 'help' out of the window. She then proceeds to call the police (they got and interpreter on the phone as my dm keeps flitting between English and her language) and they turned up. I spoke with them over then phone and as I was going over to take her to the hospital for an appointment in the afternoon anyway, I said I'd come over. I spoke with the police and they were lovely and I showed them some documentation to prove DM didn't own a property she keeps going on about. This house was my uncles but db inherited it. It washy uncles but we all lived there at some point in the 70's. Df bought the family home dm lives in and owns now.

I took her to the hospital appointment that afternoon, she was quite quiet, so we carried on until she got to see the doctor. The doctor asked if she was well in herself and she said she was. I was behind her shaking my head and so the tirade started and she started to talk in her own language getting mixed up. The consultant was concerned as he knows her and her behaviour was erratic. He asked me why she was like that and I said she'd been like it for about 10 days or so.
Tuesday - She declared she was on hunger strike. Then she started attacking my db, pinching his arm, shaking him, punching his back and swearing at him, gelling him she wished she'd aborted him. I told my db to call an ambulance. It came and they and took her to A&E. I followed as she was violent against db so safer I went. I found her in a side room and sat with her. I didn't engage with her and sat looking at my phone. She was quiet, but again went into a tirade with the doctor. I let her do it so the doctor could see what she was like. They admitted her that night. They did a CT scan of her head and an MRI scan of her head too whilst she was in, but nothing has shown up.
We had a call from the psychiatric nurse and she was going to confer with the psychiatric doctor who would also see her.
We had calls from OT and then they were going down the safeguarding route (no concerns on that front). Talking about two houses.
the scans came back with no concerns.
Dm has now been sent home and she is still talking rubbish, moving between English and her language. Getting confused, argumentative and paranoid.
Does anyone have any experience of this? What could it be? If she doesn't have dementia or Alzheimers, what else could it be? She has been given Mirtazapine, but this hasn't calmed her down.
In the mean time I have told db to not engage in conversation with her and to keep things basic, like asking if she wants something to eat and drink.
Thanks for reading if you have got this far x

OP posts:
GlitterBiscuits · 26/02/2021 20:51

Bladder infections can cause confusion in older people

therocinante · 26/02/2021 21:00

I'd say either an undetected UTI (can cause rapid and scary behaviour change) or a mini-stroke which can do the same - dementia type illnesses can come on relatively quickly - my grandma went from entirely healthy to non-verbal in 7 months, going through paranoia and confusion to hostility to nothing - but not in a matter of days in my experience.

I hope you get some answers soon - keep pushing.

OnthePiste · 26/02/2021 21:10

Hi the first thing they would have done in hospital is check her for a UTI as they are so common in the elderly. The fact that nothing has shown up on the MRI or CT scan does not mean that she does not have dementia, it is not always diagnosed that way.

Have they referred to her to the older people's mental health team? I hope so-she shouldn't be left with no support. I guess because she lives with your DB they think she is safe at home.

It could be delirium, my DM had this last year but was then subsequently diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Mirtazapine is for anxiety, hopefully it might calm her down. I do hope you get some answers soon but if she carries on like this, get in touch with her GP again.

Original poster
Longdistance · 26/02/2021 21:12

Thank you both. She’s been tested for UTI’s. Nothing showing up there. The CT and MRI scans were to detect dementia and nothing showed up there either.
My dm had a shadow on her lung which got treated with cyber knife radiotherapy a few months ago. All good on that front. She has previously had bowel cancer which spread to her liver x2 which she got chemotherapy for.
Dm has also had a double heart bypass.
Apologies for the drip feed, but there’s a massive list of all her health conditions. I’m sure the doctors love her as she’s a medical mystery.

OP posts:
LoveFall · 26/02/2021 21:13

This happened to my Dad and it was a UTI. He had to be hospitalized for weeks before he started making sense again.

MichelleScarn · 26/02/2021 21:16

It definitely sounds like a delirium, is she on a TIME bundle or whatever where you are uses to monitor this?

MichelleScarn · 26/02/2021 21:16

Sorry also meant to say its a rather scary experience at times for family so hope you and your db are ok OP.

MrsJackRackham · 26/02/2021 21:19

Is she maybe dehydrated? My Papa had a complete change in character and was hallucinating through being dehydrated.

Original poster
Longdistance · 26/02/2021 21:22

@OnthePiste thank you for your input.
Yes, no uti, complete delirium for sure. Talking rubbish and lots of confusion. I’ve fit now told my db to disengage in conversations with her and just make sure she eats and drinks.
We’re going to make lots of noise with hcp. It worked when I took dm to hospital. Her GP has been informed.
Apparently this evening she admitted to my db that she argued and swore with patients at the hospital. My dm is normally a quiet woman who keeps herself to herself 😢

OP posts:
Original poster
Longdistance · 26/02/2021 21:23

They had her in fluids and antibiotics in hospital for dehydration and she’s no better.

OP posts:
GrowThroughWhatYouGoThrough · 26/02/2021 21:27

What were the antibiotics for? It does sound like a uti with delirium

CoffeeRunner · 26/02/2021 21:27

She either has delirium (temporary, often due to infection) or dementia (permanent & degenerative).

There may well be an infection of unknown origin. Not necessarily a UTI.

Original poster
Longdistance · 26/02/2021 21:41

They've taken bloods, urine samples and the scans to see what is going on. according to them she's healthy (for someone who has had radiotherapy and has a heart valve working at 30%).
She was dehydrated, so they gave fluids and antibiotics for an infection which they said was in her kidney. They said she was fine, but now I'm thinking they've missed something. We will see how she goes in the next few days. She's been saying me and db have been colluding against her. He's evil, I'm evil and she wishes she aborted my db Sad

OP posts:
OnthePiste · 26/02/2021 21:53

@Longdistance

They've taken bloods, urine samples and the scans to see what is going on. according to them she's healthy (for someone who has had radiotherapy and has a heart valve working at 30%). She was dehydrated, so they gave fluids and antibiotics for an infection which they said was in her kidney. They said she was fine, but now I'm thinking they've missed something. We will see how she goes in the next few days. She's been saying me and db have been colluding against her. He's evil, I'm evil and she wishes she aborted my db Sad
That definitely sounds like delirium and could possibly be caused by the kidney infection. I am amazed they did not tell you this if her behaviour was similar in hospital! It often subsides but can take a while-6 weeks in my mum's case last year. Just try to keep her calm and hopefully you will see an improvement. If not, seek further help.
Original poster
Longdistance · 26/02/2021 22:13

Thank you @OnthePiste. We're going to plug on for now. I'm not convinced they've got it right and have missed something. It is a complete 180°. My db was always the golden boy, but now he's evil (according to dm) so there is something they have missed.
I'm seeing her tomorrow to see how she is.

OP posts:
dillydallydollydaydream7 · 26/02/2021 22:44

So sorry you're going through this. Have they said anything about her kidneys? My lovely late Grandfather had renal failure; was diagnosed at stage 2 and as soon as he reached stage 5 he became so very confused and disorientated

Original poster
Longdistance · 26/02/2021 23:11

Nothing about the kidneys so far. When my dm had bowel cancer it spread to her liver. Half was removed the first time and then it regenerated itself it grew back with cancerous spots which they operated on and she then had chemotherapy for.
She had the cyber knife therapy in November for the shadow on her lung, which the consultant said was fine.
@dillydallydollydaydream7 my df had renal failure and passed away with this. I'm convinced dm has something cancer related. I've been assured it's not that Hmm

OP posts:
bluestarthread · 26/02/2021 23:12

My father in law had Lewey Body Dementia and had similar episodes - lots of hallucinations- things in food, people in the house, report water pouring into his room etc. He seemed to be lucid a lot, charmed doctors and answering questions perfectly. We reached a crisis point and had to have him admitted to hospital. It’s a horrible time. I hope things work out for your mum.

MooseBeTimeForSummer · 26/02/2021 23:26

My mother had vascular dementia and suffered from terrible auditory hallucinations.

Original poster
Longdistance · 27/02/2021 12:01

Thanks all.
Dm got a phone call from the hospital and she declared she was being held hostage by my db (my poor db) and they want to know her financial situation. She didn’t spend £9k of her pension in the last year. She’s got thousands in her one bank account. I’ve tried in the past to get her to put it elsewhere but she wants to leave it there.
I have a feeling we really need to ramp up and make noise so that she gets the help.

OP posts:
NewspaperTaxis · 27/02/2021 13:32

This has prob been checked but this kind of behaviour is not just caused by a UTI but also low sodium levels. Talking gibberish, getting up and wandering around, falling over etc.
It is cured by a two or three-day stint in hospital on a drip, very slowly replenishing the sodium levels.
Reluctance to do this due to the Covid thing and you just might look at using one or two sachets of Diolyte daily to do a similar thing but that is more to ward it off or reduce the impact and I'm not a medical person, but it won't do harm. It certainly won't sort the problem by itself but it just might alleviate the worst effects.
I was taking urine samples to the GP thinking well if it's not a UTI we are really stuffed, it's game over. This was some years ago and 'patient' is doing alright now.

NewspaperTaxis · 27/02/2021 13:34

'Doing alright now' means, we had the person in hospital for a couple of nights or more, it wasn't down to me and Diolyte sachets!
Also, the drip replenishment needs to be slow, otherwise it can cause permanent mental harm, I was told.

Doodlepip23 · 27/02/2021 13:46

OP, keep pressing for proper investigation. My DM went like this overnight. The hospital said she must have dementia and that was that. We pressed for further investigation and it turned out she had an infection in her heart and once she was given antibiotics in hospital, she was much better. She had two more episodes of confusion before she died, she said the most awful things to everyone and stayed up all night talking to herself. She had previously had sepsis and kidney problems before developing the infection in her heart. Good luck OP. I really feel for you and your mum and family.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 27/02/2021 13:56

You cannot diagnose or rule out dementia on a scan alone in fact. It's on the history of symptoms and cognitive tests.

The suddenness and severity though is unlikely to be dementia and more likely delirium due to the kidney infection. The delirium can persist for weeks after the physical cause resolves but should resolve in the end.

In the meantime she might need some different medication to help her behaviour and distress in the short term which old age psych are best to advise on.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 27/02/2021 14:00

Delirium can have a variety of causes including infections of any kind, metabolic disturbances eg dehydration and low sodium and new medication especially opiate painkillers. You have to hope the hospital has done their job in ruling these out/ treating them but the mental disturbance does persist after the cause is treated so doesn't necessarily mean anything was missed. If she isn't getting better after a week or two or getting worse then back to GP to take some more blood tests.