Grandad lost capacity. What to do with car?

[Rebecca9210]

Any advice is appreciated. My grandad is in hospital. He has lost capacity and is going into a care home. We have applied for deputy but that is going to take 6 to 9 months. I got an email saying his insurance is due to be renewed. Obviously he can't be insured anymore but what do we do about the car. We can't leave it on the road uninsured. We will also have to think about tax and MOT. It's so old and there is mould growing on the bumper. I'm not even sure it works. We can't get rid of it as legally we don't have the power to until the deputy of court protection comes through. What should I do? I hadn't even thought about his car u til the insurance renewal came through!

Can you SORN it and find somewhere to store the car? Or add it to a multi car policy and insure yourself until you can get rid of it?

I don't think you can SORN it if it's on the road.

If you don't have anywhere to put it, can you ask around on facebook to see if anyone would give it a temporary home? - it can be useful to give a house an "occupied" look. If you can get it off-road, you won't have to do insurance and MoT.

Honestly, I’d just call one of those scrap companies and ask them to take it away.
Yes you would be contravening the application for guardianship but by leaving it where it is uninsured ,and without tax and insurance you would be knowingly seeing him commit several crimes. So, on balance I think the ‘crime’ of having it towed away is the lesser of two evils.

Scrap place won't take it without paperwork signed by the owner. They also need part of the log book to pass ownership onto them and have it legally scrapped

I would love to get it scrapped. I just want rid of it but we can't as we have no legal right to. I also don't have anyone I can ask to put it on their drive as it could be there for up to 9 months. Yes I could look into getting insured on it. I'm not sure how it would work if it's not outside my house. I don't actually think the car works so won't be able to move it

Let the insurance renew, cancel once you have the ability to get rid of the car

Can you rent a garage and get it towed if needs be to the garage and stored there till your paperwork comes through? You could then do SORN.

Ask the DVLA for advice?

Sorry your grandad has lost capacity. It's very stressful and difficult for the person and their family.

If you have the room, I would take it off the road and fill in a Sorn until the deputyship comes through.

I’d accidentally leave the keys in it then
Job done

I’ve been in the position of waiting seven months for guardianship to come through. It truly sucks. I fully get the dilemmas and the frustration. In this instance i would step forward and deal with it. You are not depriving Grandad of an asset. It’s actually a liability. You are not involving yourself with his finances. It’s like if he had a hole in his roof. You wouldn’t wait nine months. You’d find a roofer and do a basic repair and pay for it yourself but you obviously wouldn’t reroof with Spanish slate.

You’d find a roofer and do a basic repair and pay for it yourself but you obviously wouldn’t reroof with Spanish slate. Is Spanish slate good? I was brought up to believe Welsh slate was the best.

dint I think you are right as Welsh slate is off the Richter scale on price ... Spanish is the new Welsh in these parts

You could make an application to the Court for interim power to deal (by sale)with the car pending grant of the deputyship. There is a form you use for this.Ask solicitor for help filling out the form. You will need to evidence that what you are requesting is an emergency and appropriate. Alternatively, you can legitimately have DVLA update its details to show you as the car's Registered Keeper. It is the Keeper who is responsible for the car and its insurance. You should then be able to insure the car in your own name as the Keeper. The Registered Keeper and the Owner are often different people. In this case,Grandad remains as the owner. Insurance companies have different policies. Some will not insure if you are only the Keeper,so you may need to shop around.

Goodness this sounds complex. My DF did have a car but he was a terrible driver and the car was ancient. Didnt stop him trying to sell it and make a nuisance of himself trying to get the 'best' price. I guess insurance wont be that much.

It shows though. Please think about getting a POA for the elderly people. It wont take anything away from them and sits in the background until you do need it (like now).

Having said that my FIL kicked and screamed against having one until eventually one of his friends said he had one too.

Please think about getting a POA for the elderly people. Everybody should be setting up a PoA, not just this strange other breed of "elderly people".

@Moonstone1234

Goodness this sounds complex. My DF did have a car but he was a terrible driver and the car was ancient. Didnt stop him trying to sell it and make a nuisance of himself trying to get the 'best' price. I guess insurance wont be that much.

It shows though. Please think about getting a POA for the elderly people. It wont take anything away from them and sits in the background until you do need it (like now).

Having said that my FIL kicked and screamed against having one until eventually one of his friends said he had one too.

Yes that is the problem. My grandad refused to discuss anything like his health or POA

I am not sure a POA should be done for everyone. They arent cheap and names change, you lose contact with people , they pass on or you fall out with them.

The first time my DF did one (without the families knowledge!) it was only with one person who he then fell out with. We had to put in a new application.

Although its not a particularly popular view we have a huge elderly population, living in houses that are too big for them, driving when they shouldnt be and denying that there are any issues.

It then falls to the children to try and sort this out and its a minefield. My DF was fibbing all over the place, to try and cover things up. His finances were in a real state and he was forgetting what he had done and blaming anyone he could (or pretending that he hadnt done something even though you could see he had signed something).

Having had 2 years of this for our own health and wellbeing we need to step in early, be firm, dont pussy foot around.

I think what would have happened if we had allowed my Father to continue to drive and not persuade him to sell his car, if he had fallen down the stairs because all of the crap being 'stored' on the stairs?

Without outing myself if cost nearly £10k to clear his house.

I am not sure a POA should be done for everyone. They arent cheap and names change, you lose contact with people , they pass on or you fall out with them.

£80 to register. That's cheap IMO. Charing names or falling out with people? Keep your own affairs up to date.

The first time my DF did one (without the families knowledge!) it was only with one person who he then fell out with. We had to put in a new application.

That's one example though. Just one.

The benefits of a POA far outweigh the possible risk factors.

Smooth - might I say you are being rather naive. Keep your own affairs up to date?? But people dont, your loved ones dont, they keep it all secret. Some just dont want to take charge of their affairs and stick their heads in the sand.

The elderly are particularly prone to this. A husband or wife dies, the surviving partner might not have ever even written a cheque or filled up a car with petrol. Suddenly they are left on their own. They try not to bother their relatives or are in complete denial about what a mess they are in.

We had to go direct to the OPG when we tried to remove my DF's first attorney and there was talk about bringing in the police (long story!). In the end I quickly did another POA but that first POA could have wrecked havoc.

Keeping it up to date is really not feasible. You could forget about it and also that you had fallen out with the attorney. A sizeable % of people dont even have wills or claim there is such a thing as a 'common law wife'.

Without being rude some people are just clueless or deny they have any issues.

Smooth - might I say you are being rather naive.

You can, but you would have to provide a better argument than the one that followed this comment.

The very idea to warn people away from setting up POA because one went wrong bemuses me somewhat. I completely get the idea that we should all be careful to choose attorney's wisely.

Dark warnings for everyone to avoid just because the occasional one which turns out not to be in the best interests makes no sense to me.

For the record, I had POA for my late parents and now DH and I have for each other. I am thinking who in the younger generation might render this service.

Executor is the obvious choice

The elderly are particularly prone to this. A husband or wife dies, the surviving partner might not have ever even written a cheque or filled up a car with petrol. Suddenly they are left on their own. They try not to bother their relatives or are in complete denial about what a mess they are in. I'm failing to see how NOT having a PoA in place would make things easier.

Interestingly, I'd say that there's probably more young people who've never written a cheque than there are elderly. But I get your point.

Can he not just sign the paperwork himself when you present it as a 'fait accompli'? You are saving him money by getting rid of the liability after all.

@dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

Can he not just sign the paperwork himself when you present it as a 'fait accompli'? You are saving him money by getting rid of the liability after all.

As far as I know there is nothing we can do with the car without him there. We can't crush it or sell it. He has no capacity so he cannot do anything over the phone. He probably doesn't even remember that he has a car.

Not UK based but must it be taxed & insured if not being driven & not parked in a public place? Can you take it in off the road to his garden or garage & let insurance/tax lapse. If it was ever to be renewed in future you would need to sign a declaration that it has not been in use for the untaxed/uninsured period. Maybe check that out with local motor tax office & insurer. Sorry to hear of your GF's ill health, that is difficult in itself without all these other things to sort too