Starting to act as an attorney under POA - advice please!

[Purplewithred]

DH has LPOA for finance and health for FIL. FIL has finally agreed that DH can act for him on some financial matters. The POA has been registered.

What does DH need to get/do so that FIL's pension provider/bank etc will let him act on FIL behalf? Does what they want vary by institution, or is there something else?

All advice gratefully received.

Speak to everyone he may have to deal with, they'll all want to see and take a copy of the POA document.
Banks will, if needed, issue your OH with a bank debit card for his father's account, but in his own name, so he can withdraw money, make payments and shop etc using his dad's money but its clear he's the one who has done it. His dad can't just hand over his card, as that's illegal, technically fraud. The system needs traceability to protect both of them.
My main advice is to communicate, with banks, service providers, gas and electric and phone people. They're used to it, they'll help you.

Having been in this position myself, can I be a bit morbid and suggest a second attorney, just in case. My brother died suddenly and unexpectedly, he had POA for our Dad, who had Alzheimer's. Dad was no longer legally capable of giving poa, so I had to apply to the courts for legal guardianship, which took over a year and cost us £1000 before legal aid kicked in. It was incredibly stressful, but if you can add a second person now, it might be worth considering, especially if dementia is a factor.

Speak to them all to find out, they are all generally very helpful. Maybe worth getting a few certified copies of the LPA is you need to send them away. I’m waiting for my LPA to go through but six years ago Mum allowed me to be added to her bank account. I have my own card to her account and also use on line banking to sort out her finances. The benefit of being jointly on her account means that should the inevitable happen, the account remains open, otherwise I believe it’s a trip to the bank with the death certificate to open an executor’s account.

Whatever you do - do not let the original poa out of you sight.
So ask a solicitor to sign copies. - quite a few institutions ask to see the poa and do not return it. Some may be happy with a scanned copy.

Contact the Utility Companies and Insurance Companies as well as the financial ones. They are really helpful and it means you make calls on his behalf. I also changed my parents address to mine via the post office. This was useful as I was able to prevent a scam on their bank account and keep up with their various appointments.

As long as your FIL is still capable of making decisions, that's what should happen. Your DH can't just make decisions on his fathers behalf if FIL is still able to do so.
The POA will be registered, you need to inform banks and utility providers plus the GP. The GP will be able to discuss your FIL with your DH but still take fils opinions regarding care and treatment into consideration.

As long as your FIL is still capable of making decisions, that's what should happen. Your DH can't just make decisions on his fathers behalf if FIL is still able to do so. If FIL delegates decisions, that is OK. With my father's permission, I managed his savings, because although in theory he is able to take decisions, he worries about them and takes such a time over them that he was losing interest while he decided.

But you can only do this if the PoA has been written to allow you to act on his behalf while he still has capacity.

I believe that for financial poa you just need the persons permission even if they have capacity; for health you can only use if they've lost capacity. Finance poa used to be used eg if you were travelling abroad for ages and might not be able to be reached to make decisions

I have found banks and building societies often have slightly different ways they like things done but basically all the financial institutions with which the donor has an interest need to have the POA registered with them.

Most have a separate section dealing with POAs and you can contact them directly. They will need to see the documents plus proof of identity (be careful about sending originals in the post). I found some to be very straightforward and others more complicated but it's worth getting on and doing it rather than waiting until there's a pressing need.

I've found it very straightforward dealing with building societies and banks in branch. You need to set aside an hour, but they basically copy the PoA document, get you to sign lots of forms, and then are ready for you to do whatever financial transaction you wanted to do straight away.

Things you deal with at a distance are more difficult. Some will accept a scan of the PoA, but others insist you post an authenticated copy. On the other hand, the insurance company I dealt with yesterday were happy to accept my word, possibly because I didn't do anything detrimental to my father (like cancel insurance and ask for a refund).

The only place where I didn't actually register the POA was for DM's bank. I had been operating the account online on behalf of my father when he first noticed that he was no longer up to it.

They had had a marriage with very traditional split of responsibilities so I continued to run her accounts when DDad died.

The bank were happy to accept the POA but I got the impression that I would have lost online access to their account so just carried on without mentioning it as online access was vital to my remote input.

Would love to know if anyone had online access to accounts with POA.

I have online access to my Mum's bank account with POA (Santander). I can see the account and deal with direct debits, but have to go into branch when I want to transfer money from the account, which is obviously a complete pain. Especially as it always takes them two goes to make the transaction because whatever it is that stops me making the transaction stops the cashier making it too, until they remember they need to go into the account as my mum instead of as me. I have to remember to look at the transaction receipt very carefully before I leave to make sure it doesn't have 'declined' in very small letters at the top.
Sorry, slight rant there!

Oh that must be frustrating maddywest

I always felt a bit bad about not being open with the bank but honestly, that does sound like quite the pfaff

@maddywest, would your Mum be agreeable to you being added to her account. I’m on Mum’s account so when I log on line both my own and her accounts come up and then I can transfer money when needed. I haven’t registered POA at the bank. The benefit of this being that if the inevitable happens, the account remains open for ease of sorting out the estate.

@CatsMother66

That's interesting, thank you very much, I shall investigate.

Hmmm interesting. I might look into having it as a joint account. Mum lives in a care home so I don't want to open myself up to accusations of deprivation of assets if she lives long enough to run out of money for self-funding.

Sorry to hijack slightly Purplewithred. It is interesting how all this stuff fits together for ease of use!

I have online access with poA - Natwest. It’s been really straightforward once the poA was seen by them. I can do everything necessary and they also do carer cards so a carer can shop.

I have on-line access with POA at the Co-op Bank.

At the start of the initial lockdown when she was shielding I asked that she sign a form "that will let me get money out of your account and do your shopping". There was a box to tick saying whether she capacity. I left it that she did, as she does have some which meant her own bank card is still valid. I completed the form and sent it in, I then took the POA in the local branch for authorisation.
It has proved a blessing as her health has deteriorated over the last few months and she is now totally housebound. I have a card in my name and a cheque book which means that I can buy whatever she needs without problem. All she is concerned about is that I use her money and not mine.

To be honest I didn't explain fully about how much I can actually do, just that it stops us getting into trouble with me using her bank card. I still feel guilty using it though and feel as though I am stealing from her.

My dh has PoA for his elderly aunt all set up, but it has not been activated (if that is the right term). Aunt is now pretty much incapable of writing cheques or realising there are bills to pay. My DH keeps saying to me that it is too difficult, given the pandemic, for him to do anything to help her but surely what he needs to do is get access to her (sole) bank account so that he can at least keep the bills paid? From what some have posted, this isn't too difficult?

I assume the PoA has been applied for, authorised, but not acted upon? The PoA will have a section in it which asks your Aunt when she wants your DH to act for her. You must check whether it’s immediate, or whether it’s when she looses mental capacity. If it’s when she looses mentally capacity you may need to prove this before you can proceed.
Your DH has obviously had some conversation with your Aunt in the past and agreed to be her attorney. I may be reading it incorrectly but you give the impression that he’s not particularly bothered in helping? He should be helping with paying her bills.
I have applied for Mum’s PoA this year and registered it with a number of places. Everyone, without exception has been extremely helpful.
What is he finding difficult? Is there anything in particular we could help with? Some times it is just a case of emails or letters without personal contact if he is worried about the virus.

CatsMother66 thank you for your very helpful reply.
That is exactly the situation - my DH and his brother both agreed to be attorneys for their aunt some years ago (I was the one who pressed them to set up both financial and health/well being PoAs). Aunt is now much older and very frail, and just can't physically cope any more with keeping on top of her paperwork. She is sometimes lucid, but at other times just unable to focus. My DH is indeed dismissive of the situation, and citing the pandemic as a reason not to try to help. I'm trying to show him that it really is not as complicated as he thinks - he is at this moment looking for a copy of the PoA which he admits he has somewhere.....and, as you say, emails to her bank etc are no doubt the next step.

Once he's found it, he needs to get at least one official copy - if he has to send it off by post, it's reassuring to know you still have the original if the copy fails to return.

I always try where possible to take a copy in to a local branch. Once they've checked my id and photocopied the PoA, I don't have to take it in again. Not many places will accept an emailed scan (although some do).

He has to work in her best interests. Refusing to do anything is not in her best interests.

@Gonegrey31There will be a bit of leg work to start, as the PoA has to be registered with whoever she has dealings with before they deal with you. It sounds like his Aunt is in her own house? Utilities seem to accept emails, some companies want certified copies (never send the original), financial institutions will probably need face to face with his ID. But everyone was more than helpful with advice when I initially spoke with them.
It might seem daunting/too much trouble at first, everything is when you don’t really know what is what, but once he sets it up with the bank, it wouldn’t be too much work especially with on line banking. It would probably be easier to deal with it now rather than doing nothing and end up dealing with the mess later.
As his brother is also an attorney, you also need to check whether they can act separately or whether it has to be jointly.
Tell him that he should be proud that his Aunt put her trust in him. It could be one of the last things that he does for her.

Thank you both so much for this invaluable advice. I really appreciate it. The aunt is an extraordinary character, she had a heroic war time career, and I'm enormously fond of her. We will get it all sorted! And that's a brilliant line for me to take with my DH....