Father-in-law’s living conditions...

[Corneliusmurphy]

Long one sorry. Not technically fil before I get told off but dp and I have been together for almost 20 years so near enough.

Fil had a bad fall this week, was just able to contact dp after a night spent on a concrete floor. Ambulance arranged, dp rushes over of course. Fil is kept in hospital dp goes to his house to get bits and basically it’s a state.

We went back today planning to give it a scrub and it’s even worse than we thought, there is no heating, no hot water (gas was cut off some years ago due to oxygen tanks being in the house and has never been reinstated) mildew on the walls (no doubt not helped by the lack of heating) stuff everywhere.

The stairs carpet is dangerous, but there is a bedroom and bathroom downstairs so he could relocate down there if we can clear the mess.

I don’t know where to start, our house is tiny, the kids have all got rotten colds and he’s classed as vulnerable for corona anyway so he can’t come here. I cleared his living room today and then made a start on the kitchen where I discovered the lack of hot water...

The taps are leaky in both bathroom and kitchen, I think there’s a problem with the electrics some of the plug sockets are working and he’s rigged a light in the kitchen as the ceiling light isn’t working. The windows look like they blown, I could go on...

I’m rambling a bit here but I can’t believe he’s been living like this we see him often but he always comes here or at the dcs sports. We’ve also discovered he’s burnt through his savings and is being partially supported by his brother. Honestly knew none of this - he avoids questions if he doesn’t like them and will lie to suit we actually spoke to the brother today and it’s all come out.

The house is owned outright (we think, starting to get concerned there’s more stuff we don’t know) realistically I think he should sell and move into a flat preferably or something needed less upkeep, the house has been in the family since new (50’s) but not updated since (I would guess) the 70s/80s. Of course this can’t have come at a worse time with all the virus stuff too.

He’s only 69 (I don’t even think of that as elderly) and very much a head in sand person but we can’t leave him like this. I think he’ll be sent home tomorrow and o don’t know what to do!

That sounds overwhelming. 💐

Your FIL is lucky to have you willing and able to help. I hope he accepts your help.

No advice but love and hugs to all of you. Good luck OP

Ask for the council occupational therapy team to assess his house. They can suggest modifications and possibly a care package.

Thanks all x we’ll be going back round tomorrow, my first thought is seeing if we can get the gas reinstated which hopefully will sort the damp. I will contact the council too - am I right in thinking there’s an adult social care service? Does he need to get a referral? Does being a home owner make a difference?
Seems like he’s been avoiding the gp, they asked him about his blood pressure yesterday and apparently his medication ran out and he couldn’t get an appointment, when? Two years ago...

When the plans for discharge are being made, normally the hospital social work team or discharge team get involved. Take photos of the house to show them. Deep cleans can be arranged by them so you dont have to do it. Payment is normally paid for by the patient if they have funds. Worth speaking to the team.

A financial assessment is normally done too and sometimes a home visit. They may seem the house unsuitable with what you have said

Make sure you let the hospital nursing team know about his awful living conditions he's concealed from you for years, it's important they know about them and come out to assess his return. He's probably glossed over that when they've asked him

If the house is deemed unsuitable will they keep him in hospital until it’s sorted?
I don’t think they want him there really with the risk of picking up other illnesses and also clogging up beds.

There is no money in savings anymore (no idea where it’s gone) the house is an asset (doesn’t feel like it currently) but he does have a decent pension. Happy to sell the house but with the best will in the world that isn’t going to be a quick option.

yep he will have definitely glossed over!

If the house is deemed unsuitable will they keep him in hospital until it’s sorted? No they won't, they will try to find a suitable care home for him at least short term for rehabilitation.

Take photos and show them (his care team etc) just incase under current conditions things don’t run like they should.
Fingers crossed for a suitable outcome.

Your problem won't be that they're trying to keep him in hospital, it'll be that they're trying to discharge him to his house or to yours. You will have to be very firm in saying his home is unsuitable and he cannot come to yours. You have no legal obligation to take him in.

You don't need a referral to adult social services.

If they provide care in the home, he will be means tested as to whether he can pay for it, but his home won't be included in the assessment. If they decide he needs residential care, then his home will be included.

If he still has mental capacity, he can't be forced to do anything against his will, and social services will probably say they can't do anything (even assess his needs) unless he agrees.

This was exactly what happened with my mother.

The people saying take photos are right, this is what changed everything - they realised they could not discharge her. And the people you need to be dealing with are the hospital social workers, they will be the most help. (And they are really good at recommending cleaners, they have so seen this, and worse, before).

In the end the hospital agreed to a 4 week stay in a care home to buy time.

At the moment with COVID-19 hospital discharge processes are changing, and anyone medically fit to leave hospital will be going pronto. No hanging around waiting for assessments or the 'right' care home to come up. It will depend on the hospital but just be aware that they might take risks on discharge this week that wouldn't have been taken last week.

I suggest you call safeguarding now (look on your council website) as well as taking photos/talking to the hospital social care team as advised by PP.

Do you have any idea how/why the house has got into this state? why is he self-neglecting? does he need a mental health/capacity assessment?

He was discharged Friday, I spent all afternoon on the phone to adult social care and everyone just kept giving me everyone else’s number

He wanted to go home, he had full mental capacity and the hospital said they couldn’t keep him. So he’s currently in his house. There aren’t home visits for obvious reasons now either.

We spent all afternoon there today trying to clear the downstairs bedroom so he can sleep in it; five black bags of rubbish later we’ve barely made a dent but have put a bed in there. Clothes had to binned because of mildew, I found a vacated (thankfully) rodent nest in a box of crap and I still don’t know what to do. I’ve spoken to age concern and social care again and they’re sending me details of specialist accommodation for elderly people and we spoke to an estate agent in case a private rental is an option.

He is still saying everything is fine. But that also he might not be able to get out of bed, and dp had to help him put trousers on as his balance was so bad.

I would like him to move into somewhere suitable (and nearer us) on a short term let. Then either sell the house as it is (my preferred option) with a view to him eventually buying near us or get it renovated for him. Except that’s probably going to cost around 25k and we’re not near enough to oversee. And he has no money.

And now he’s home he is pretty much saying he doesn’t want to leave it. I knew this would happen he agreed with everyone he spoke to whilst in hospital but is backtracking now he’s got out. I am feeling so frustrated. I veer between fine live like this if you want to and crying because that’s not actually living is it??

Sadly the backtracking on what he agreed is common.
Cry, scream, shout because you need to. (I mean it)
As he has been judged to have capacity, you either

1. leave him be until his next crisis, then you either repeat your concerns or walk away or get in with dealing with it yourself.
2. Alternatively talk to him , hoping he sees reason, then proceed with a joint decision or failing that leave to have another crisis.
3. Or continue as is.

Meanwhile, keep on phoning social services. Self neglect is a safeguarding issue and should be investigated. However, given the covid19 - it’s highly likely that they will say he has capacity to live like this and understand the consequences, therefore nothing they can do. It’s not a way to live, but it is his choice.

Sorry to swear but it’s a crap system at the best of times. There is never an easy answer and I’m sorry to not be able to offer one.

Do you have any idea how/why the house has got into this state? why is he self-neglecting? does he need a mental health/capacity assessment?

His parents bought the house as brand new when they married, it’s the only house he has ever lived it for any length of time (brief marriage to dp’s mum aside). The house was probably really well maintained by his dad until he got too old and I think to a certain degree he still sees it as their house. I think they were pretty set in their ways and it’s rubbed off on him.
I also think if it had been council the modernisations would have been pushed on them but as it’s owned it would have been expensive and too much hassle and it’s just been left. I do think there’s a certain amount of laziness involved and now, rather than being maintained it’s been left until it’s a massive job.

On Friday we couldn’t get the kitchen light to work, according to him it hasn’t worked for years, why no electrician? Too expensive and yet he managed to burn through 30k of pension lump sum with nothing to show for it . I don’t know if he’s lived like it for so long he’s become ‘blind’ to it. Really don’t know, he’s an intelligent man but completely lacking in common sense and practicality.

That's awful OP. Will he let you see his bank account to try and work out where the 30k has gone? And

Self-neglect in someone deemed to have full capacity is not necessarily something Safeguarding will pursue.

Unfortunately your FIL has the right to live like this if he wants to. Just because you (and I) cant imagine anyone in their right mind wanting to live this way doesn't mean we can force our way of life on him.

Deep breath. Don't rush to try to fix everything (he won't let you anyway, probably). Don't sweat the small stuff. Listen and understand. And I'd be minded to wonder what his financial situation is first.

Small steps here, if you try and rush him he might back away - he's obviously been ok living like this and too many changes might upset him. Keep phoning SS, have you tried age concern too ?

Banks accounts don’t show much as he makes cash withdrawals. Apparently the 30k was after paying off 25k of credit card bill - he makes cash withdrawals on them too...

I am annoyed because he’s always spoilt the kids despite me asking him not to, he would turn up with armfuls of those crappy kids magazines I would have to get quite abrupt before he’d stop then two weeks later he’d start again. Dd used to like sylvanian family stuff he’d appear with £50 worth at a time for no reason? Not a birthday or anything, boxes and boxes of stuff at Christmas. It sounds great except we have a small house l, he wouldn’t ask first or anything so it wouldn’t actually be things we needed and anytime I moaned to anyone I just looked like an ungrateful bitch. We had no idea there were cash issues he had a well paying job and minimal outgoings and then a really good pension. He has wasted a small fortune over the years because ‘he wanted to look flash’ (his words)

I’m sorry all I’m doing now is moaning.

Right, he told us he has six weeks worth of food in but we are going to try to get bread and milk for him.

We won’t be able to get over after today until next weekend so we’ll see how we get on. I will ring the authorities tomorrow and find out housing options available (if any) and then if he changes his mind I’ll have details.

I’ll also find out how to get a gas meter reinstalled although they need his say so.

Don’t apologise. You are not moaning. You are understandably worried, frustrated and a whole host of other emotions. You just need a safe place to get it out, without being judged, you’ve now made a plan of action.
Good luck and take care of yourselves too.

You sound like you're doing sensible things. Keep letting off steam here, it's a lot better than venting to those around you, and most of us have had similar frustrations so we can understand what you're going through.

Thanks all, I really do appreciate it for all!

He seemed a lot brighter today, dp was busy painting the picture of future him in a lovely flat with good transport links where he won’t need a car (he doesn’t like driving and keeps it so he can visit us) will have spending money and all the obscure non-league football teams he can possibly want (no really). He seems perfectly happy to hand over his finances to dp and will hopefully give in for a quiet life...

He is a nice (if slightly infuriating) man in a crappy situation and hopefully he’ll let us help.