Care home closed to visitors

[Saz12]

Dads care home has closed to visitors (corona virus). When I say “closed” it really is closed to ALL non-essential visits (basically, anyone non-medical). No “one visitor for half-an-hour a week to separate area”. A blanket no visitors.
I’m worried that Dad won’t remember me by the time this has lifted (couple months?).
He has no real quality of life and I’m absolutely sure that if he had the choice he would want visitors even if it caused him an earlier death.
Obviously other residents probably don’t feel the same way!

Caring for him myself is impossible as he needs 24-hour care and I need to work (am 30 years away from retirement).

What, if anything, can I do?

Maybe PinkBuffalo you could have a what’s app group going with the other families who are in the same position. Many in the wider family might be feeling like you do and seeing them for a cuppa might help a little. The care staff could help set this up by making a few calls to get families’ permissions to pass on numbers. Just a thought.

They are not legally allowed to,restrict people seeing their families. It is a Deprivation of their liberty

You're not quite right there.

DOLS is for the best interest of the person and their overall need for care and safety. This will include minimising exposure to a virus or illness. In the current uncharted climate, DOLS will not be at the top of the list - protecting everyone will be.

The decision to close the home to non-essential visitors will not have been taken on a whim and will have been advised or even dictated by the Infection Control team (who oversee all Care facilities in your district).

It is heartbreaking to not see your relatives though, no amount of logic will overcome the desire to be with them and there for them x

They are not legally allowed to restrict people seeing their families

This is true. But they are allowed to say that families cannot visit their premises. So the patient could decide to leave if they had capacity. Or the family could withdraw them if they had P o A. If the patient stays the care home can call the shots.

Yes OK nuances. The care home is the persons home. They are ( if they have capacity ) allowed to decide on visitors to their home.
DOLS is a Deprivation of Liberty. It is absolutely not about anything overall. It is (as is the MCA) decision specific.
Horizon homes have already been facing action about this exact thing. Until a restrictive law is passed it is outwith the law. However sensible that might initially seem, a closed culture where abuse is far more likely is also a real risk.
Stopping Visitors to someone in their home, with capacity is not currently legal. Exactly the opposite and no current precedent.

Seen as though cases abroad have shown how it can rip through a care home, and as we are shockingly short on carers anyway even having a few off would test the home to the limit, I can't really see any other options which will help to preserve life. As people can incubate initially with zero symptoms you couldn't even rely on testing. What alternative do you see cherry?

My son (in his 20s) is disabled and lives in a care home. They have banned all visits and all trips out. I normally visit regularly as does my exh (his father). He's going to struggle not seeing us but we are setting up Skype and he can phone. I absolutely understand why they are doing this, I just want him to be safe 😔

I was wondering about DOLs myself.
My parent is end if life and I am not allowed to see them.
I don’t know how to process it or cope with the feeling AT ALL.
(They are not able to focus on / see / hear skype they are too ill).
No quality of life.

They are also not elderly. Late 50s.

My mums nursing home is closing to all but the most regular visitors (like my dad who goes daily) tomorrow. We are off tonight to see her and hope it won't be too long before the restrictions are lifted, but who knows, everything's very up in the air at the moment

I think with the reported shortage of ventilators and staff etc, they are aiming to do everything they can to keep vulnerable groups away from the hospital.

It would be more heartbreaking for CV to be contracted and spread in the care homes but with no hospital facility available to take and treat them. It might be psychologically distressing to be kept apart, but it would be both physically and psychologically distressing for all concerned (the person and their family and the care staff) to have someone suffering without the medical help they would need just to feel comfortable, let alone treated. At least they are being protected phstically (from CV and its effects) as much as possible.

*physically

AJTracey I would under the circumstances ask the legal basis they are preventing you seeing your parent before they die.

They could ensure you didn’t come into contact with anyone else, they should be insistent on hand hygiene anyway as norovirus is as much a risk.
I’m not sure I’d accept a blanket ban by someone with limited expertise. They may not reduce a person’s rights just because they live in a care home. Reduce transmission risks, yes. Ask for co-operation, Yes. Dehumanise and remove rights? No.

Alternatives are visitors only in small numbers. No contact outside a person’s room. Try and do a no touch visit. Good hand hygiene and cleaning of door handles, handrails etc. Plenty of fluids frequently for residents. Lots of fresh air - open windows and doors. Help people dress warmly enough to meet in garden.
How do you think hospitals are minimising risks?

Let’s be clear, most people in care homes have a non-transfer agreement for non-reversible conditions and DNACPR that would mean no transfer to hospitals. They should have anticipatory medicines prescribed well in advance of need.

Nobody is going to place a ninety year old on a ventilator for ARDS. It would be unthinkably cruel regardless of the number of ventilators available.

We are allowed to stop people visiting their relatives. It NOTHING TO DO WITH DOLS.

Please do not berate staff for taking the only option left to them to protect your relatives. Otherwise take your relative out of the home and take them home.

It’s is shocking the amount of visitors we’ve had to remind to wash and gel their hands at the door. Despite very large posters asking them to do this and pictorial posters for the nhs also asking them to do this.

Contact your loved ones via Skype or what’s app messenger, normal phone or telephone the office for updates. Most staff have smartphones and the office will have a laptop to facilitate video calls.

It’s not just your loved ones we are trying to protect but also other people’s loved ones.

Yes it’s hard, but the alternative is to leave them all vulnerable to this horrible viruse, which we will have to watch them die from, knowing we could have taken steps to prevent- but families don’t want us to take.

Is that what people really want?

Sorry to rant but honestly - care homes and staff are just trying to do their best under unheard of circumstances - and having to take precious time out to argue with relatives is really not helping in the slightest. Staff who are on the verge of walking out are having their minds made up by having to deal with people who think they know better and can do what they like regardless of the consequences.

BargeBill I have offered to do personal shopping for the care staff team at my DM’s place in order to make their lives easier. I have said I will go find them toilet rolls if they need them or get them the things they need. I truly hope others are supporting them as well. Thank you for what you do.

Rinsefirst, thank you.

@19Bargebill19 brilliant post.

Thunderpython, thank you. (Blushes).

19Bargebill19 I understand your concerns but you are wrong. You are denying people the same rights everyone is entitled to. The right to make their own decisions. It is absolutely a DOLS issue.

You have no right to decide what decisions are I needed anyone’s best interest where they have capacity - even if you believe it is an unwise decision.

Lord Justice Munby in the case of A Local Authority v A and another [2010], a local authority does not have any “power to regulate, control, compel, restrain, confine or coerce” the individual under the Care Act and their human rights must be respected at all times. This precedent clearly applies to care homes.

If they lack capacity and have no LPA or Deputy you can make a decision in their individual best interests but, where that limits their freedom, you need a DOLS. DOLS isn’t just about bed rails.

Have you sought the consent of the residents to restrict access, assuming capacity? If they lack capacity following appropriate assessment then you need to apply for a DOLS. I would suggest asking the Commission for guidance. It’s certainly in discussion at the moment within DH but there is no legal basis as yet for doing so.

I'm so sorry for everyone going through this. It is going to be so hard.
I think it's very impressive of the care homes to make these decisions though. Although it wouldn't be a lot of people's personal choice at least it isn't them or you having to make the decision. The homes are putting your dads physical health first.
Also we must not forget that hopefully these measures will lesson the burden on the NHS. Because they would want to try to save every elderly person who gets this.

No I’m not wrong. Please feel free to think so incorrectly.

My mum is in a care home and they went on lockdown on Wednesday, although I haven't visited for longer as the week before I had a cough and didn't want to pass it on.

She's in there due to a series of strokes that have affected her speech and mobility. She was living independently until July but her mobility was getting worse and she was having fall after fall and kept being unable to get up.

She's one of the youngest in the home (72) and she's still very sociable. Up until July she was still trying to get out and meet her friends every day. She's going to be climbing the walls having no visitors - most of the residents have dementia and she has no one to have a proper conversation with other than the staff, who understandably don't have time to chat to her all the time when they have other residents to attend to.

I'm missing her loads . I usually visit every other day. I have no clue how long this will be for, I don't suppose anybody does. I'm glad she's safe.

Busy sitting down.

Write to your mum, post can still be received. Telephone the home and ask to speak to her via their phone if she doesn’t have her own. If you have a smartphone, arrange a Skype or what’s app chat. (I use my own phone and laptop to facilitate this with my residents) If you are close enough visit and wave through a window to her, assuming you don’t think this will be upsetting.

You are right, no one knows how long this is going to continue for. We just have to try our best.

No I’m not wrong. Please feel free to think so incorrectly.

But, CP has clearly read some stuff on the Internet after a quick Google (although I expect her to come right back with how high up she is in the care system, she does like to tell the most unbelievable tales of her own supremecy and sheer importance and sneer at is thickos dontchano!)

I'll take your snippets of wisdom over a fantasist on Mumsnet looking to score points, any day.

To those missing loved ones with restricted or no access, my heart goes out to you. Speak directly to the care manager if you absolutely must see them, but please don't listen to the call to arms that a certain poster on this thread is trying to whip up in order to make themselves seem ever so intelligent and important.

That was bloody nasty. CherryPavlova has an excellent knowledge of the social care system and offers very sound advice on the subject.