very basic question - who lets the carers in? And slightly less basic - is a keysafe really safe?

[Canitreallybehappening20]

This is a very obvious question - but, when the dparents have carers coming in daily, does it work to have the dparent let them in (or do they ever not hear the door, or just forget? I know it would depend on the individual, obviously, but would be grateful for any advice!)

I know the alternative's a keysafe - are there any that pp would particularly recommended as being ultrasafe? (Old habits die hard, so the idea of leaving a key outside is quite nervous-making for a newcomer to this!)

Totally understand your nerves. Mum had a key safe and it was very successful. Experienced care agencies know how to manage this.

The caring agency will keep the password of the key safe.

Not all all dim 99, my question's also rather 'basic'! Yes, that's one possibility though quite often the agencies don't send the same carer every time I think (and particularly if you have them more than once a day there may be different shifts) so I'm not sure that would always work to give the carer his/her own key.

I've also heard that some agencies don't let their carers keep a key - too risky - but say there must be either a keysafe or nothing - anyone else heard of this?

Thanks Bellini, that is reassuring - yes I can imagine the agencies get lots of slightly alarmed people! I see there are some police approved models, so that would be a start.

My mum was completely bed bound and she had a key safe with a pin on the outside of her door, fitted by the council. The carers and doctors knew the pin and would let themselves in and out. The only problems we ever had was when people used to leave the door open when they left! Total nightmare - the post man once left the door wide open and my mum had to ring me to come and shut the front door! (By the time she was shouting out to him he had gone)! Other than that no issues at all.

Good quality key safe and cctv over the door works for us.

I didn't realise this until recently but on some of the key safes (the push button type) the code can be used in any order and the numbers used the most look worn so easy to crack.

DH insisted those was the case and I insisted not. Tests proved me wrong!

Better to choose the combination wheel dial type.

I work as a carer. Most clients have a key safe. In my experience the combinations are usually worked out via a code so if a carer loses their password sheet, the number is still safe. Very basic example would be a = 1 b = 2 c =3. The careers sheet would say the code for the safe is bcab so the carer is then able to work out to use the code 2312 to open the safe.
This has been the way every agency I've worked for it has kept the codes safe to ensure that the key safe codes are safe and not going to accessible to those who shouldn't have it.
Hope that explanation helps you feel abit better about the key safe being safe idea!
Also, in my experience no carer has been allowed their own key for safety reasons. (Too likely it could go missing!)
That was in companies with lots of carers though, and different carers going in due to shifts etc

Ah yes bagels, I can see that leaving the front door open would be a problem!

I suppose my concern is that it only takes one person to write down the pin and leave it in the wrong place at the wrong time (can you tell I tend to look for problems?!) But if the alternative is encouraging the dparent to open the door to people knocking, that is perhaps not so good either. No easy solutions! (a common theme)

Key safe details can be used by ambulances so the front door doesn’t need to be broken to allow entry.

eek stayathome to "the code can be used in any order" - that is really useful advice to get a dial version, although interestingly the police approved versions I've been looking at seem to be button-pressing versions. CCTV is a good idea, though I'm not sure if it deters everyone!

I agree filthy, I can see why agencies don't allow carers to have their own key - too much of a risk of it getting lost, or left lying around etc. (I was about to say also too much risk of the carer coming under suspicion if there's a break in, but that is illogical as the same applies if they know the code, so scrub that!)

I'm an OT and keysafes are the way forward

I have my own. In order for dog walkers to come in.

Rarely will agencies hold a key.

I do understand your worry but honestly the risks are outweighed by the huge benefits.

As a worker I've no perfected the knock and open technique to not surprise people nor make them leap up and run to the door.

My mother has a key safe with a pin. The carers have used it as have the emergency services. It is very useful.

As a district nurse we had hundreds of patients with a key safe. Never an issue.

Have people used the supplier's installation service as well for the keysafe - or installed it themselves for their dparent?

(I know in one pp's case upthread the council installed it, but I think this will be a question of buying it ourselves rather than the local authority providing it - or is that not recommended?)

Key safe. We installed it ourselves for my D parents

If you google “Yale smart lock” you will find models that open via card, code, key fob or smart phone app.

All of those entry modes are very easily cancelled, changed, restricted as staff, visitors and guests change.

I thought I would hate ours but it is fabulous. Very easy. Very flexible.

We got a key safe for my mother in case she ever needed carers or an ambulance, but in the event never used it.

We also have one ourselves, so that our (then) teenage children could let themselves into the house after school. It's very useful and I wouldn't be without it especially as our front door automatically locks when closed.

My mother's was a padlock type so didn't need any installing. Ours is wall mounted and we screwed it onto the wall ourselves.

We had FiL living with us, but bedbound with carers coming in three times a day, and we weren’t always here.

We had a keysafe installed and it worked really well. Also really useful for when our mostly grown up kids forget their keys; like a more sophisticated version of having one under a plant pot.

In my experience in community work, some staff would leave the key safe open whilst in the house, with the PIN number on display if anyone were to come close enough. This is only a problem with the ones with the dial wheels, and not the push button types. That is the only worry I would have.

I think a key safe is the best solution you can get.

BUT

Realistically, DF’s key safe code is available to:

• the people who installed the alarm
• the people at the fall alarm company
• and the agency carers ( team of around 30 people) with a high turnover of staff on minimum wage.

So probably 40 people minimum in total.

This would be completely unacceptable in any other “secure” setting.

You need to change the code regularly. I do this but the agency make it clear that they think I am odd to do this.
You also need to check that the carers are spinning all the wheels on the safe when they leave. We have had repeated instances of them only spinning one wheel so it makes it easier for them to open it when they return.

I think obvious CCTV over the front door is a good addition.

You could just change the code weekly/monthly or when you wished. As long as you notified the agency, this shouldn't be an issue. I too have never heard of anyone holding keys.

Another option is to put a note on the door 'Please wait at least x mins after you buzz for me to get to the door'. I once visited a person home and rang the bell. No answer, then called their phone and waited. Then rang the bell again. Eventually I thought they were out, but unknown to me, the person was just slow, and trying to get to the door, then back to the phone, then back to the door! If they had a note on their door, or the company had advised me, I would have known they just needed alot more time to get to the door.

ouch Icanhear! Ok, so a very good argument in favour of the push buttons. I'm guessing it may be easier to change the code with a push button than on a dial one as well (assuming it's a bit like a hotel safe!)

Thanks everyone, it's very reassuring to know that so many have had them without problems. I suppose I've never heard of a break in via a key safe, but then I don't usually examine crime statistics too closely! What about wanton vandalism - just ripping it off the wall and taking it, for a laugh? Does that ever/often happen? Would be annoying but not disastrous I suppose.

My concern would be if the key safe was to be to prised off the wall
or broken in to with brute force.

Oops, cross post.

Ah, cross posted with Tegucigalpa - yes that is a lot of people, and that would be one of my concerns. CCTV would provide some reassurance but there are cases in which it doesn't deter. All comes back to the 'no easy solutions'.

Elouera yes that's the alternative - rely on the (currently mobile) dparent to let the carer in. On the other hand I can't help feeling that as a general rule it's better to discourage them from going to the door, rather than priming them to be ready to do so. (Various incidents in the past of door knockers saying 'your roof needs mending, that'll be £xkkk' - so far to no avail, fortunately.)