What's normal

[FruHagen]

Hello, I don't know any 82 year olds, other than my Mother so I need some input on whether her memory loss is normal or not.

So she is living independently, and seems very happy and healthy but her memory is very bad.

So for example I will say, "today, we should go and get a new dishwasher, as yours is broken". She will agree. Then 2 minutes later she will ask "So what are we doing today?". So I repeat what I just said. Then she will forget that the dishwasher is broken in the first place and say "oh, no! There's nothing wrong with my dishwasher, why would I want to get a new one?". So then I go back to telling her about how it doesn't seem to be working and how dirty the crockery is.
Then we do the whole thing again.

She forgets what we said a few minutes ago, such as plans, conversations or discussions. She muddles who said what and everything is told a bit wrong - exaggerated or changed in some way.

The truth is fluid. Threads are lost.

What is going on?
I mentioned her memory seemed a bit different and she reacted quite badly.

Anyone have any help for me?

She could ask her doctor to arrange an appointment at the memory and hearing clinic dont make a fuss, or challenge it, just say you're a bit concerned so would like her to get it checked. Try and keep conversations simple and to the point, it can be frustrating but it will only stress you both out. Maybe write things down for her, make sure she has a calendar diary.

It does sound like she is having memory issues. Very hard to address if she is in denial about it.
Do you have power of attorney? If not, now would be a good time to get it.
Is she under the care of her GP for anything else? My MIL has recently diagnosed Alzheimer's, but her late DH was hugely resistant to acknowledging any issues. But their GP suggested she be seen by the memory clinic (which went down much better than when we suggested it)

No, I don't have power of attorney, I don't know anything about that, will look into it.

One of my siblings thinks it's just aging, the other is concerned, the other - I don't know. But I get the impression that everyone thinks what is the point of pursuing some kind of diagnosis if it's incurable anyhow.

There are several different kinds of memory problems. Your DM may be experiencing one or more type. The advantage with a diagnosis, is that it enables you to put in place strategies to keep her healthy and independent and crucially, safe, for as long as possible.

Thanks for your input. She is not at all willing to listen to me, thinks I am just a worrier.

Anyhow I will try and find a way around this and get the doctor to see her

I’m going through a similar thing with my dm. My first step I took back in the summer, before she was aware of her memory problems, was I phoned her doctor and requested a call back and told her I was worried about her memory and asked her to call her in for a check up. Mum just thought it was an ‘age related’ once over. It started the ball rolling in the right direction. Good luck op. It’s tough. Look into poa asap. You’ll need a solicitor to do it. It means you can take control of things legally if your mum becomes unable to.

Sometimes with my mother, it’s me who is not listening. Things are broken, I’d like to arrange repairs and replacements....she does not. Sometimes she has worries on her mind (which seem to take days to tease out) which interfere with her thought processes.

Sounds like more than just age related issues. A memory assessment is the first step. If she's reluctant, put your concerns in writing to her GP and get them to ask her in under the guise of a "well woman check" or something.
Talking Point is a great forum for lots of info too. Have a read through.

Having spent 10 years in a similar situation I can really sympathise. Pleas try to get her to complete the POAs. I would download them and start to complete them so that they are ready if she does agree.

The way I got my parents to agree was to say, ‘Do you want to have complete control of what happens to you when you get old? Or would you prefer to leave all the decisions to the Doctors and the like?

So many people think that by signing a POA they are immediately giving control to the Attorney. By selling it as, they get a say in their treatment is a much better approach.

Normal aging doesn't include forgetting stuff like this.

She needs a trip to the GP, with someone accompanying her to explain what the problems are (as she won't remember) and a referral to memory clinic.

Most useful thing I learnt on a Dementia Course - people with memory problems don't think they have a memory problem because they can't remember! When you suggest they have, they are often really offended as they have all sorts of explanations of why the world seems a bit weird to them.

This totally summed up the experience we had with my FIL who was v offended we thought he had a memory problem as it was always the fault of MIL/the computer/the council/someone else changing things and definitely not that he didn't know what was going on.

Making up stuff to fill in the gaps, for example misremembered conversations where everything is wrong or made up is also typical.

People who are worried about their memory tend to be the worried well - if you can remember you have a memory problem, it's probably fine and they are more likely to find that you are anxious.

Hi there - I'd say not remembering something discussed minutes earlier is not normal, no. I looked after my gran a little and also had several great aunts and experience of my husbands gran too. They could be generally a little forgetful but that might mean forgetting a comment from a previous conversation weeks ago or something. Not minutes. Please try to arrange a dr appt and also POA is a great idea. It was really helpful when my granny in law was very unwell. Also make sure you have a good GP. Some can be really dismissive of elderly people and put everything down to "being old" when it isn't.

Has she got a history of urinary tract infections at all? Sometimes problems that present as personality changes, memory issues can be trace back to undiagnosed urine infections. Could be worth just having her tested for one and / or keeping her on cranberry capsules as a preventative.

You don’t need a solicitor to do a POA. You will need someone independent from you but knowing your mum who can say your mother is signing the POA under her own free will and understands what it is. There are 2 types financial and medical. The medical one only comes into effect when your DM loses capacity, you can set up the financial one to be in force straight away but that doesn’t mean you have to use it straight away and your mum can still make financial decisions.

As you have siblings you will need to agree who will be on POA and whether you can act jointly or separately.

I would get POAs sorted as soon as possible as this sounds much more than old age memory lapses I am
afraid. I understand that there is medication that can slow down the process for some types of early dementia, so you need to get your DM to the GP.

The Alzheimers society have a table to help distinguish between normal old-age memory loss and memory loss which suggests something more may be going on: www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/symptoms-and-diagnosis/how-dementia-progresses/normal-ageing-vs-dementia

You don't need a solicitor for PoA, but if you are new to it, it may be reassuring. There are two types, Financial, and Health& Welfare.

In both you can have more than one attorney, and they can act either "jointly" (which means all of them have to agree over ever decision no matter how tiny) or "jointly and severally" - which means if your Mum needs a new pair of slippers you can pay for them with her money without having to get a signature form all the other attorneys. Much more flexible, if you trust each other.

Health & Welfare only comes into effect once your mum has lost capacity to make the decision in question ( she may still have capacity to decide whether she want cottage pie or fish and chips for lunch, but not have capacity to fill in an 'end of life' wishes form).

Financial may come into effect only when she loses capacity, or may come into effect while she still has capacity. Second option can be useful - eg my dad managed his day-to-day bank account and I looked after his savings.

The reason people are suggesting it is that both have to be set up while your mum still has capacity to make that decision; and since she is beginning to have memory problems, a solicitor specialising in elderly affairs may be better able to make that decision (which is why it may be worth spending the extra to have a solicitor set it up). If you can't get a PoA set up before she loses capacity, the alternative process is long winded and expensive.

Once the PoA is signed, it needs to be registered with the Office of Public Guardian, and it's best to do that straight away, so you can use the PoA immediately when needed.

This sounds like my DM, who is 86, and has vascular dementia.
She forgets appointments, plans, and conversations and is very repetitive. Recently - the last few months - she’s started to not know what day of the week it is, forgets to take tablets etc.
She’s always been very hospitable but has recently started to press food and drink on family and friends repeatedly - every minute or two, even interrupting conversations to offer another cup of tea or a biscuit, and frets that she owes one of us money for shopping or hadn’t paid the mobile hairdresser etc.
Her memories of the past are clearer but having heard the same tales for donkeys years, I can tell inaccuracies are creeping in. Best not to contradict her though and go along with it.
I think she knows she’s forgetful but doesn’t realise how bad she is, or that she does actually have dementia.
I agree with pp who have suggested tipping off the GP and asking them to call her in for a “routine” check.

Does she listen more to one of your siblings, if she sees you as a worrier? Could they try and sort things out?

Agree with the poster who said about UTIs - check this. It can make an elderly person very forgetful / not themselves...

I had this with my father when he was in the earlyish stages of dementia, it does sound more than normal I'm afraid.