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Elderly parents
Original poster

What happens when the money runs out?

51 replies

Lippy1234 · 05/02/2020 19:36

I’ve started looking at care homes for my DM. She will have to sell her home which is worth around 275k and pay fees of approximately £1400 per week. So she only has enough funds for about 4 years of care. What happens when her money runs out? Do people actually get moved to cheaper care homes? She is only 68.

OP posts:
Russellbrandshair · 05/02/2020 19:41

When her money runs out, social services would take over the cost. If she’s currently in a very expensive nursing home then they’d move her to a cheaper one. But that would only be if the home she’s in now costs way above usual social services rates. It sounds cruel but unfortunately they don’t have unlimited funds to pay for too whack nursing homes for everyone. The only reason she might stay would be if her care needs couldn’t be met elsewhere eg if she required an EMI home and none of the cheaper ones were available or had beds.

Russellbrandshair · 05/02/2020 19:41

Top whack

HappyHammy · 05/02/2020 19:43

Its a difficult situation for people. That seems quite expensive. Have you looked at slightly cheaper homes. Has mum had a full care needs assessment and a financial assessment. Do you think she might qualify for any council funding or a nursing care contribution. When the money runs out the hone should carry out and care assessment and take it from there. People can get moved if they cant pay the fees but the good homes are reluctant to do that. Sorry about your mum. Why does she need a home .

Original poster
Lippy1234 · 05/02/2020 19:43

Ok thank you, has anyone heard of people actually being moved?

OP posts:
thesandwich · 05/02/2020 19:45

Is she eligible for continuing healthcare payments because of conditions? Have you factored in pensions etc?
Some homes will keep residents on council rates if they have been there for many years- worth asking.

Original poster
Lippy1234 · 05/02/2020 19:46

The homes are that price in my area (south east), I’m not looking at the very expensive ones.
My DM has advanced Alzheimer’s.
What is a nursing care contribution?

OP posts:
hatgirl · 05/02/2020 19:46

At 68 I would be asking social services to get involved if you haven't already so that they can support from the beginning of the process.

The simple answer is that when she gets to £23500 left you ring social services and they will start to contribute towards her care until she reaches £16k left and then they will pay all of it minus any income she gets in benefits and pension etc.

If at that point she requests financial assistance she is living in a care home that doesn't accept council rates then yes she MAY have to move if she can be moved to somewhere that does. Alternatively if you or someone else (it can't be her) can pay the difference between what the council will pay and what the home wants then she will be able to stay where she is. This is called a 3rd party top up.

Depending on her needs she may also be entitled to some funding from the NHS.

FuzzyAtmosphere · 05/02/2020 19:47

Many families top up the difference as moving after several years can be quite distressing and disorienting for those in the care or nursing homes. If you can’t afford this and think your mum will outlive what she can afford to pay, I’d advise you to only look at homes which are both private and state, so that she doesn’t need to be moved at a later date.

hatgirl · 05/02/2020 19:48

Ok thank you, has anyone heard of people actually being moved

Yes people are moved all the time. Not just because of money but because their needs change and the care home can't meet them anymore.

If your mum has advanced Alzheimer's then you really need to be going through social services.

okiedokieme · 05/02/2020 19:51

If she has advanced Alzheimer's then request nhs continuing care - they will pay the fees but will have an approved list. £1000 a week is typical btw

Russellbrandshair · 05/02/2020 19:51

Yes I have. It’s just like how the NHS wouldn’t pay for you to have an operation at a private hospital unless they were forced to, due to no beds being available in the usual hospital. £1400 a week does sound very high- it’s around £900/1000 where I live (just outside London). I highly doubt social services would pay that if they didn’t have to, they have limited budgets and are under pressure to spend as little as possible. There are financial organisations whereby you can sign over the house to them guaranteed, and they will pay for all future care fees. They make their money on the basis that some elderly people will die before the value of the house has been used up so the profit from that balances out any costs they have from paying fees for people that live until they’re 100. This kind of scheme is worth at least looking into if money running out is your main concern. They will do a risk analysis to see if it’s worth their while.

AnnaMagnani · 05/02/2020 19:52

I appreciate this probably isn't something you want to think about but even though your mum is only 68, if she has Alzheimer's advanced enough to need a care home, 4 years is a very long time.

blue25 · 05/02/2020 19:52

Yes people do get moved. My cousins decided to pay the top up to keep my Aunt in her nursing home. It’s difficult for them though.

The cheaper homes they looked at were horrible apparently.

Original poster
Lippy1234 · 05/02/2020 19:52

The one I viewed today takes private residents, and also state funded residents if they pay the top up. They said when my Mum’s money ran out then she could stay without paying the difference as that is what they do for lots of people. I just couldn’t quite believe it so would like to see some evidence of it and will ask them more about that as it’s a big factor in choosing a home.
I wouldn’t be in a position to pay the difference of over £600 per week myself.

OP posts:
HappyHammy · 05/02/2020 19:55

If she has advanced dementia then she needs to have a care needs assessment. Does she have the mental capacity to make the decision to move and sell her house or does someone have power of attorney for her. Where is she at the moment. If a person has complex nursing needs you can apply for a funded nursing care contribution which goes directly to the home its about 150 pounds a week I think. Do you know what level of care she will need.

Russellbrandshair · 05/02/2020 19:55

Today 19:51 okiedokieme

If she has advanced Alzheimer's then request nhs continuing care - they will pay the fees but will have an approved list. £1000 a week is typical btw

You absolutely cannot rely on continuing healthcare. They turn a lot of people down and usually only pay for palliative care clients or clients with very complex health needs. Just having Alzheimer’s wouldnt qualify for CHC

8paws8legs · 05/02/2020 19:55

I'm sure things changed a while ago and people only had to pay upto 72000 of their own money. Which is approximately 3 years care near me (north west) my gran is in a home and I'm sure I remember my mum moaning that my gran had just missed the cut off but would only be a further 72k from then on.

hatgirl · 05/02/2020 19:55

There are two types of nursing contribution

One is called the funded nursing contribution (FNC) and is currently just below £160 a week. Anyone who is in a nursing home and receiving nursing care (physical nursing or dementia nursing) will probably be eligible for this. This is paid directly by the NHS to the nursing home to provide the nursing care. The rest of the cost is covered by the person or social services or both.

The other is called Fully Funded Continuing Health Care (normally referred to as CHC). People who are eligible for CHC tend to have healthcare needs that are of a nature that impact on every other aspect of their care and are above and beyond what can be covered by the FNC or can be met lawfully by social services. These needs are usually 'complex, unpredictable and intense'. If someone is eligible for CHC then the NHS covers the whole cost of their care, wherever that care is being provided.

GrasswillbeGreener · 05/02/2020 19:56

Advanced Alzheimers, depending on how advanced, she should eventually qualify for continuing care I would think, though perhaps not yet - I don't know much about the criteria. Definitely talk to social workers and discuss with her GP or consultant.

Russellbrandshair · 05/02/2020 19:56

I mean, it’s always worth asking for a CHC assessment but what I mean is- don’t rely on this. I’ve just taken my dads case to the ombudsman and they refused to pay for his care, even though he had complex health needs

HappyHammy · 05/02/2020 19:57

If that is what the home claim you would need it in a written contract. Thats assuming the home is still open and under the same owners in 4 years time.

Russellbrandshair · 05/02/2020 19:57

how advanced, she should eventually qualify for continuing care

Nope. My dad had advanced Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. CHC wouldn’t pay

hatgirl · 05/02/2020 20:00

They said when my Mum’s money ran out then she could stay without paying the difference as that is what they do for lots of people.

That sounds like they accept council rates for people who are already resident with them. In my experience a good indicator of a care home that cares about people more than money.

8paws8legs yes that policy was supposed to come in 2017 following the Care Act 2014 and the Dilnot report. It got shelved 'for later' by the Tories and didn't get implemented as planned for political reasons. Then Brexit happened and everything else has had to wait until they got sorted out.

Original poster
Lippy1234 · 05/02/2020 20:01

She lives on her own at the moment, she’s just starting having three care calls a day but it’s nowhere near enough care for her. She’s just had a care assessment but I’ve requested another one as her needs have changed so much in a short period of time. I have POA and I don’t know if she has metal capacity.
The dementia crisis team are visiting her daily.

OP posts:
HappyHammy · 05/02/2020 20:07

Her gp or a social worker can assess her mental capacity to assess how much she understands about her illness and what is best for her. Maybe someone from the dementia team can help arrange this. Do you think she needs a nursing home or a residential home. Do you know how much help she is likely to need now and in the future.