Bloody awkward dear father!

[Benji13]

My df is almost 85 he’s been a great dad but always been an awkward sod. Quite controlling of my very fit and well 80 year old dm.

I’m an only child aged 52 with my own family dh and 2 sons aged 19 and 23 - both at home. We live very close to the parents.

My df almost certainly has early stage dementia that’s now progressing. Not diagnosed as they are in denial but I’m certain it is dementia. Some days he’s not too bad other days very very forgetful.
His mobility is also shocking now and he walks with a stick very poorly. He refuses a frame scooter or anything - as he’s fine thank you very much!

I’ve now done the forms for attendance allowance and made an appointment at the council assisted living centre to look into a stairlift - he crawls upstairs and downstairs now. The appointment is tomorrow I’ve booked the day off work to take them. I’ve had them to Sunday lunch and had a calm chat with him about the appointment. He’s refusing to go he’s fine needs nothing and no one is going to make him go. I said well they will just come to the house to assess you and he hit the roof saying he will bolt the door. I honestly don’t know where we go from here. My poor mum is on on her knees and I really worry for her health.
Any suggestions very welcome 😩

Sorry OP feel your pain we had this with my dad. But after several UTI’s and chest infections and hospital stays later he/they are in a pickle.
The memory team would assess him for dementia. You can apply for Carers Allowance I did this was honest and was refused it less than 6 months ago. My dad was sent home from hospital this month with a care package as my mum really couldn’t cope now he is having to accept it.
Take care my advice would be to contact someone like AGE uk to help you complete the form.

What is your mum's health like? If you could argue that she is getting very tired traipsing up and down stairs and the statutory is something she would like to have, would be be more likely to accept it?
Could they live downstairs if they had to?

Your mum is entitled to an assessment as a carer. Your dad wouldn't accept this (since he obviously doesn't need a carer), but it's another way that you could get someone into the house to do some sort of assessment - as long as your father has capacity, they won't assess him without his consent, but they might assess your mum's needs.

You might find your father finds it surprisingly difficult to manage the controls on a stairlift - even though it is only a matter of point the stick the direction you want to go.

It's likely he doesn't have denial about having dementia - he can't remember he has a problem.

Dementia being a disease of memory, the person with dementia generally doesn't acknowledge there is an issue as they can't remember that they have a problem with their memory.

And their spouse, especially a wife who is used to the husband being in charge, who is with them every day, may not be aware of things as much as someone who visits once a week as they are just immersed in it and have got used to getting by memories of MIL and FIL here

You may have to drag him to the GP 'for a check-up' but it will only work if you go with him as a witness to give examples of the memory problems as he won't know there are any at all.

I work in the business. This drives me absolutely mad.

Your dad is being irrational and selfish. But of course he is elderly, and he is your dad, so it’s really hard to tell it to him straight either for you or for your mum. And like Anna said, he wont realise he is not thinking straight (and being angry because he is confused is a very common response to early dementia).

You can do nothing and wait for a crisis of some sort - likely he will fall and do himself some damage, although worst case scenario DM will get ill and he wont be able to manage.

Alternatively you can try to tell him straight that he is being selfish and irrational and he is putting DM at risk, and that assessment and stairlift are happening for her sake. Not persuasion, not a conversation, straight factual talking. “So you are happy to put all this extra worry and work on DM?” Or you can carry on waiting until he sees the light for himself, which might happen but might not.

It is so so hard, but I really feel we treat some elderly people like royalty when they are behaving like toddlers in ways we wouldn’t put up with for a minute if they were the same age as us.

Thank you all for your really helpful replies on this.
The good news is this morning he forgot he had said no yesterday and agreed to go. The OT was really helpful and had him trying a stairlift which the council will fully fund. Them mom tried it and we played the game that it will be useful to her too. They are coming to assess the stairs and then all being well it will be sorted. It’s bring done and that’s that. Hopefully he will use it!!!
I do think it’s time for me to get a GP involved and get a memory assessment and that’s another awkward conversation o need to have with mom.
It’s very hard and draining tiptoeing around....

That's good, Benji.

Purple, I had that conversation with DH yesterday. It's all very well talking about capacity and so on, but I think we may have moved the goal a bit too far- no one can have things exactly the way they want, regardless of age. Sometimes people need to be told that they have unreasonable expectations.

no one can have things exactly the way they want, regardless of age. But they shouldn't be forced to live to our expectations. If it's not affecting someone else, it's quite a realistic stance to decide to put up with less than ideal conditions in return for maintenance of autonomy.

Yes it’s a fine line isn’t it MereDin. They still need to be able to make their own decisions and live the way they want BUT as long as it’s not affecting others negatively. My worry is my oldie mum who’s life is becoming very difficult. It’s trying to keep everyone reasonably happy 😆

It does affect everyone else though, usually. There's the someone who gets the emergency phone calls, the someone who gets the emotional blackmail, the someone who has moved closer...

Very rarely do the choices made by an older person to preserve their autonomy achieve that without impinging on someone else's. I have a difficult DM who is quite isolated. Her constant cry is that she just wants someone to help her, but when you help she nitpicks and undoes everything you try and do. She won't do it herself, she won't let someone else do it. When she pays someone, she stands over them telling them they are doing it wrong. Then she can't get anyone to come back.

God pickleme that sounds familiar. My friends dm is exactly like that - extremely demanding / difficult. You just can’t win!
I do think that most of us in our 40s and 50s are paying the price for being the ‘ sandwich generation’. We had our kids later and so face the double challenges of aging parents and demanding teenagers/ young adults. Add the menopause on top and omg 😲 it’s no wonder it feels tough.

Can I suggest you also take a lol at the Herbert Protocol. It’s for use by police / search and rescue teams when a person with dementia walks off and becomes lost / missing. Gathers all the info we will need to swiftly plan and run a search, when time is critical.

We are getting just the same with FIL, he ended up falling the last part of the stairs but still will not accept help. It's really hard. He also has a lung problem so can hardly manage stairs due to this either.

They think 'once 'they' start assessing you' all will be lots, their lives will be taken over etc, it is all about control. Which I kind of understand. they would never accept a chair lift due to it not fitting in with their old house anyway so I guess would end up having to sleep in the living room.

It is really hard listening to it all from MIL and trying to support her, FIL sounds really similar, controlling and a bit domineering. Latest is won't take any pain meds after the fall and is being a grumpy nightmare :-(

all will be lost, I meant to say.

Very rarely do the choices made by an older person to preserve their autonomy achieve that without impinging on someone else's

Yep, I've been in a similar situation with mine, I've had to take weeks off work through various crises that they could have planned for, and lost money as I'm self employed, and feel exhausted and depressed that I can't seem to get on with my own life and give DD the attention she needs. You sound as if you've done pretty well this time OP, I have no suggestions, just sympathy from having been there!