Coping with elderly, ill and demanding parents

[Sandwiched18]

My DF has a denegerative illness and DM is caring for him, they are in their 80s.

The background to this is that DPs have made some terrible decisions in planning for old age.

In practical terms, they prioritised spending on long haul holidays for many years. They still wanted a big house, big dog etc, so around 15 years ago "downsized" to a 3 bed house that's a long walk to the local amenties in the village they've lived in for years, where there are hardly any jobs so is miles away from where their children stay. They extended it so in theory they could live on the ground floor, but cut corners with the extension design and build so it's difficult to access now when they are getting infirm, plus they don't seem to actually want to lose the extra living space so have installed a stairlift.

My DM has also been manipulative about my DF's health for at least a decade. Probably the worst example about 8 years ago she kept getting upset about how ill he was. We organised to move closer to where they live so we were 45 minutes away rather than 90 mins, and once we were committed to the move they announced they were going on another long haul holiday.

I've got 2 small children and work virtually full time and last year I had a really rocky patch in my marriage, so I feel like I'm running on empty all the time myself.

My DF is now genuinely frail but won't do activities or groups to get himself out the house and maintain his mobility.

Every time I speak to my mum she spends the first part of the call moaning about the stairlift, how they're having to adapt their house and crying about how hard it is for her, and guilt tripping me to visit more often "to keep DF's spirits up".

They were meant to be coming to ours for Christmas and spent months dithering around about hotels and tried to invite their dog along even though it just wasn't practical for us to host a big dog, frail elderly person and look after a toddler, then ended up cancelling at the last minute because of DF's health, which landed me with quite a bit of extra food and expense.

We went down to see them on Christmas Eve which I didn't begrudge but was quite a lot of extra stress. This didn't really seem to register with DM at all and yesterday she was back to the crying and guilt tripping.

I'm at the end of my tether with it all, have a history of depression and am beginning to feel ill myself. I'm sad that my DF is ill but my DM would ideally like us to act like he's at death's door for months or years, which I can't really do because I need to put my own kids first.

Does anyone have any advice?

There are a lot of knowledge people on here but if you ask Mumsnet to move your post to www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents, you are more likely to get the most pertinent information.

Thanks. I'd been trying to find the elderly parents section but couldn't. Have reported and asked for it to be moved.

The Elderly parents forum falls under the "Other Stuff" part of MN.

You cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped and I would lump your parents in that category. My guess is that they have always been like this too and do not want anyone else's help or support. You may also want to have a look at the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages because of your mother's guilt tripping exercises, you seem mired in fear, obligation and guilt.

Put your own self first and I would inform Social Services that you are not able to assist.

Hi, we're moving this thread over to our Elderly Parents topic now.

@Sandwiched18, been there, got the T-shirt. The attention demanded by selfish aged parents contributed significantly to the breakdown of my long marriage. Mother crying down phone all the time saying she couldn’t cope but refusing to agree to any changes that would have helped her to cope. My mother has always been difficult and she has become worse. The advice I give to you is put your and your DH and DC needs first. Your parents chose to live in a particular way and you have done all that you can to help them. Perhaps that’s a reflection of my new selfish attitude. I decided that if I couldn’t beat them I was going to join them.

Yep, I'm in a similar situation and it's crap. I agree with @SuperbMonkey, you can provide reasonable support but you need to put your DH/DC's needs first. I'm constantly guilted and made to feel somehow responsible for bad decisions, plus DF doesn't want to take responsibility for anything - it's easier to blame other people!

Many on this board will be able to relate.
But new year, new you
Things will only get worse as their decision making unravels and all the things you warned them about will actually happen - they can’t drive, can’t walk dog, they need you to take them to appointments, they get more stubborn and conspire to undermine you when you try to help.
Absolutely cut down on contact time, keep phone calls to minimum, be unavailable. It sounds v rude but you cannot get sucked in any further. You need to look after yourself, DH and DC. You can do it.

I'm in a very similar situation OP. DM dithered and is in a huge house after DF died, is lonely, bored, depressed and anxious, but refuses to downsize or to join clubs to make friends. She won't take the medication she is prescribed and dismisses all her doctors' advice.

She is emotionally manipulative (crying, suicide threats) both to guilt me to visit (9 hour round trip) and when I'm there and can be verbally abusive. I work a 48 hour week and am doing an MBA too - no DC but DH hardly sees me, it's affecting our relationship and I'm sick with stress. I've got no advice although I've tried to set boundaries like pp said, but I completely sympathise. This board is incredibly helpful and there is some great advice on coping (eg PP's!) You're not alone!

Thanks all -

@AttilaTheMeerkat I do need to check out the stately homes thread. They were both horrible when I was very ill after having DD, culminating in me getting called back into hospital with very high blood pressure and asking them to give me a bit of space. Of course they kept trying to call, email and text, I blocked them for a while but when I did speak to DF I got told that it "runs in the family" and I wasnt that ill.

@superbmonkey (I'm really sorry to hear of your marriage and I hope you put yourself first now) and @amicrazyorwhat2 - I'm coming to the same conclusions myself. I had got things down to a weekly phone call but will try and step up if there if a genuine crisis but my DM knows this and uses it to up the emotional ante. I try to minimise what I tell her as it anything gets twisted around into being about her.

@Rinsefirst - that's very prescient! I've already had an episode where DM couldn't drive to an appointment. I offered to help give her a lift as the main hospital isn't too far from where we live, which has good rail connections. But she went in the huff because I asked her to find out from reception when she was likely to be finished (I had to fit things around childcare and work).

@imfreeezing that sounds awful. If it's any help, I used to work in a job where people not infrequently used to threaten to commit suicide if they didnt get what they want, which was normally a bigger house. In the end I started telling them I wasnt qualified to deal with suicidal people (true) and they needed to speak to their GP before I could help. It's horrible.

Sandwiched you raise a good point about getting things down to a weekly phone call and stepping up if there's a crisis but your DM exploits this. How do you deal with this while keeping a balance and not ending up jumping at every call?

Don't lean in, lean right out
Don't step up, step back, step way way back
They will drain all the blood from your body, and then use your withered husk as a stepping stone to get to the next person who's lifeforce they can feast upon

I wish someone had told me in my 30s that my 40s and 50s would be as much about running after my parents as my own dc.
If someone had had a serious talk with me -and I had really listened - I think I would have dealt with their issues differently. For example, I would have let them ‘own’ their problems instead of trying to fix them.
OP it’s incredibly hard saying, No, to your parents after all this time, but prioritise making sure your children are happy and comfortable in their own skin before you attend to your parents. Youngsters have huge pressures on them nowadays. Your parents made their own decisions so let them reap what they sewed and focus on those coming through...

@Imfreeezing I don't know! My DM goes through phases of e-mailing, texting and calling repeatedly, to try and make us do whatever it is she wants. I guess it'll be about recognising the warning signs and not getting sucked in. It's worse that DF is genuinely frail - it's like she's the Boy Who Cried Wolf and at some point I'll confuse a real problem with a manufactured one.

@Rhinoskinhavel - I'm coming to that conclusion myself. I've got a sibling with an addition problem who can also be quite draining and who DM is quite good at distancing herself from when she has to.

@Rinsefirst thanks for the advice. I think having my own kids has really made me question some of my parents' demands.

DM is quite good at distancing herself from when she has to
she happily organises things to suit herself, ducks out of things she doesnt want to do, she should expect the same from others.
Look at her behaviour and take it as permission to treat her as she treats others

Look at her behaviour and take it as permission to treat her as she treats others
RhinoskinhaveI nails it. Truly golden advice and if you follow it you will instantly feel better about everything. Having has 25 years of the ‘problem’, this is the nugget that lets me and my DSis stop feeling guilty about saying ‘no’.

thank you Rinse
l find it's best with the cray-cray people, serve it right back to them....nice and cold :)

If they can afford long haul holidays they can afford cleaners, taxis, gardeners, carers etc etc. Do not get sucked in.
Give them the number of social services and a local handyman and back away. They must now live with the consequences of their poor choices.
Your DC only get one childhood. That, and your mental health trumps anything else. We all get ill and die. There are millions of elderly infirm old people managing alone. They're not unique.

Thanks all.

Wee update. We're no longer in the "DF is at death's door" script, and I was hoping I'd get things down to a weekly phone call.

However, DM is showing all the signs of upping the ante again. Today I came home to a postcard to my two kids, not directly asking them to come and visit but clearly trying to put the idea in their heads to ask me!

One suggested activity involves my father, who can't get up the stairs, climbing a ladder into an attic. She's also mentioned visiting a stately home type attraction close to where they live... the last time we organised a joint trip there my parents cancelled it at the last minute and told us we could go to their house instead (I declined).

I feel a bit bad (which I guess it's designed to do!) but also just find the thing about trying to get my kids to lobby us to visit infuriating, particularly when there's little or no chance of them actually doing the promised activities.

How old are your kids? Are they old enough that you can explain to them exactly what's happening? It's not great if they watch you apparently being unkind to DPs when they don't know the back story. If nothing else, how you deal with DPs sets the parameters for how they deal with your generation (both ways round: you don't want them be cruel to you or to inlaws, but neither do you want them to be ground down by unreasonable demands).

The only sensible advice I can give is to prioritise your own DCs, your DH and yourself, so your own immediate family. Work out in practical terms what is realistic for you to do of DPs in terms of visits etc and stick to it. Keep phone calls to a reasonable minimum, avoid asking how DPs are and tell them about what you and your family are doing. Find an excuse to cut the call short when the guilt trip starts so you don't have to listen to it.

The most useful thing I found was to dump the guilt and expectations and look at each situation dispassionately. My adult parents were not my children, they got my practical help but not my soul.
So I made lists, decided what I could and couldn’t manage, refused manipulation and emotional pressure and regained my balance and mental health.
Still helping out, but on my terms. It was tough, but not as hard as depression and the cracks that started to form in my own family.

Cross-post seltaeb

You need to read up on grey rock, op. It's a technique where you maintain superficial contact, but don't give them anything to work with in their guilt tripping and manipulation.

So you make the weekly call, but don't actually commit to anything or give them any information. Lots of 'that's nice, dear', 'that's a shame', 'oh dear' 'did you?' Responses, but no meat, IYSWIM.

When she suggests meeting up, you'll check your diary or maybe later in the year when the weather is better, or maybe after DC's exams etc.

Work out what you want to do- weekly phone call, monthly visit for example. Stick to it.

The background to this is that DPs have made some terrible decisions in planning for old age. I think you're being a bit hard on them here. You mention they're in their 80s, and they made what you see as a poor house choice 15 years ago - so when they were 70? What did you want them to do? Move into a nice retirement flat in the middle of town? That's rather a lot of their life to spend waiting to die.

If they're in their 80s, their young adulthood was before the age of cheap flights and package holidays. It's not surprising that those of us who are in our 60s and 70s would like to catch up with our offspring and do some of the travelling now that our children are doing in their 20s.

None of this denies the need for you to define your own boundaries and not let them overstep.

It seems to me many people leave planning for being less fit, far too late. Both mine and DH's parents didn't start seriously looking until it was really hard and ended up staying put and managing with unsuitable housing. It's really important to move while you are well enough to cope with change, make new friends if necessary, find your way around. As the DPs got less confident, everything got harder.

I'll be prioritising a nice home, then looking at holidays once I've settled in.