Social services keep saying that there is too much money for any help - but we are stuck

[louiseaaa]

I wonder if someone could shed some light for me

Social services say that they are under no obligation to asses out elderly early stage demetia parent as they are above the income threshold and we just have to "get on with it" The doctors have said that they have done a referral for the parent too, and that social services should be helping is put care in plce, even if we should be paying for it ourselves

I'm totally in the dark here - who's right?

They are entitled to a free care and financial assessment, you can look this up online or try Age UK. What is their living arrangements, are they at home at the moment, what sort of care do you think they will need and are they able to make their own decisions around paying for and accepting care.

If you are above the threshold for help it’s just as easy to look up some local care agencies and speak to them about your requirements , that what we did .

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/arranging-care/care-needs-assessment/

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/financial-assessment/

To be honest, that was exactly what my parents were told too. Its not right as they are entitled to the assessment, but you are far better off arranging care yourself than using the care agencies that SS use.

If they can afford it, find a private care agency or nurse. Council run care companies allow ridiculously short times for care needs and it'll be sub par at best (not the carers fault usually)

SS kept palming us off about FIL. Said he wouldn't be entitled to anything and would have to stay in his house and have care bought in. He decided he wanted to move into a home so we found one he liked and moved him. He has sold his house now so has plenty money to fund this. When in the home they arranged for SS to assess him there and he now gets the lower band of funding.

Thank you for all of your replies - they were helpful

They are entitled to an assessment. Social services help is means tested so if they have savings over £16k they will not get "free" help. If their needs are severe then nhs continuing care is not means tested for medical care.

Hi

We have had the exact same experience (though it’s turning out to be partly self-inflicted as my PIL didn’t push for the assessment despite getting the SW out to do one.)

M’y understanding is this: your parent has the right to request an assessment and to insist that it is done. However, if they don’t meet the criteria for personal care (depends on whether they can go to toilet, wash, take medicine, eat etc), then the council will not offer any financial or other assistance. BUT if like us you are brand new to caring, the care assessment «should» help you to work out what care is needed and understand what the options are - even if they are self funding.

Having said that, with a few more days experience, speaking to care homes / companies, speaking to support groups etc I feel more confident that we, the family, can make these decisions without a care needs assessment having been done.

We have decided not to force the issue for now, as PIL are struggling to face up to the fact that my MIL is reaching the point of needing help to stay clean basically. At that point we will need to revisit it.

Social service have a duty to assess under the Care Act. They're failing in their duty if they refuse and you capfuls legally challenge it.

They are probably fobbing you off because they will have long waiting lists and you can afford to pay for yourselves so have no need to wait.

There will be a local organisation in your area that will do a search for a provider that can meet the needs of your relative. Where I am they are this:

mycareselection.co.uk

No fee to you they get a finders fee. They were great finding help for my Nan.

Hope this helps.

We've recently reached that stage with my mother. I looked into it. SS said they would do a care assessment but if she wasn't entitled to financial subsidy we would have to find a care agency.
She has no savings but her pensions are well above the income threshold. It's quite hard to find out how the income threshold works but I did eventually. Roughly speaking it takes into account the cost of all care including carers, housework, podiatry etc. Then they leave the person with the equivalent of basic pension credit.

In the end I rang a local agency and they have started by sending someone every morning. As her care needs increase I think she will eventually qualify for subsidy.

it's not because someone's care needs increase that they might qualify for care but because they have used up most of their money in paying for care, to reach the threshold. it's about £16K savings/assets or an income equivalent, eg may be above threshold due to pensions.
continuing healthcare does depend on client's needs, not money, but is very difficult to get without specialist help. person would have to be severely disabled, permanently/progressive, probably with extra needs eg challenging behaviour. anyone trying to apply for this as laypeople are almost sure to fail. may need to apy for specialist nurse consultant/ solicitor to succeed.
perhaps you could ask around for people to recommend care-workers.
sometimes independent/self-employed ones are better. with agencies they usually get minimum wage, pay peanut etc... and you have to pay about double per hour to thee agency, compared with what they get paid.
it's a minefield. tread carefully. ask around.
don't accept what any one official tells you. make no commitments to them.

@alexdgr8 but an increase in care needs might mean they do qualify. It's not just savings that are considered but income as well. So in a case like my mother who has no savings but a relatively high income, as her care costs increase she comes closer to qualifying for help.

Your parents are entitled to an assessment under the 2014 Care Act.In my experience this used to be fairly quick but I was told to ask for a re-assessment by DM's consultant. I was told to expect a six week wait but it was actually six months. SS locally simply have too much work, insufficient funding and high staff turnover.
DM is self funding and I've now been told that SS will offer no further advice etc as I am competent and source care myself.

The local brokering agency who match clients up to care agencies or homes with vacancies now charge for their services, so do check before using one.

@alexdgr8

Apologies, I should have clarified that my PIL are in Scotland where personal care cannot be charged for, so an increase in care needs definitely has financial implications.

Breaks my heart reading this. Scotland here too and my father had advanced dementia and Parkinson’s disease. He needed round the clock care at 84 years old. Lifted by hoists, doubly incontinent, constant infections due to catheters and 12 years down the line from diagnosis. Needed 2 carers 4 times per day.
Fast forward to near the end, my mum his main Carer took a stroke. Had never taken respite facilities in all his years of illness. We asked for him to be taken to respite as we could not look after his needs at home without her. No spaces available so for 2 days social sent us to a private care home. He was there 18 hours where I spent at least 10 of those hours with him as at that stage was the only one he would take food from. He was moved to council respite and died a short time later. Before the funeral I was sent a bill for £800 for his “stay” at the private care home. Even though he has full medical needs. Sorry had full medical needs.
Still breaks my heart to see what happens to our elderly and dread the day it comes to me.

Are you in Edinburgh by any chance? Elderly social care is bloody awful there

Social services will normally offer a 4- 6 week assessment package cost free regardless of income. They are then supposed to come up with recommendations for an ongoing care package which will be put out to an agency for them or the user ( if there are assets over £28000) to fund.

IME their assessment package was fairly useless. I think I counted over 45 carers coming and going over the four week period. There was little or no continuity as there were 20 or so people on each of four daily shift slots. They would come in, spend 10 minutes reading the comments left by their predecessors, check DF was alive, administer medication and then spend another 10 minutes filling in the book. In the four weeks they attended only one carer got him to take a shower and change his clothes despite repeated reminders. All the others said they needed a bathing assessment report - which had a wait time beyond the four weeks we had them- or that he was already dressed and they had to respect his choice not to change his clothes or shower that day.. ..They seemed incapable of removing dirty clothes at the end of the day and laying out a fresh set for him to wear in the morning despite him being in his pyjamas in bed on heir last visit of the day.
One spent most of her visits shopping for food despite there being a fridge full of food in the utility room at the back of the house which we had shown to at least 15 separate people....

Non LA agencies are much worse as their staff get paid minimum wage, do not get paid for travelling time and they leave as soon as they can get a job with a local authority.

In the end we went for a private arrangement with a group of four regular carers as it was much easier to co-ordinate and communicate. This has worked well over the years. We knew what DFs needs were - we knew him and it was largely common sense - and did not really need the LA to tell is what he needed on the back of so many people having interacted with him for a total of a couple of hours.
The LA just gave us a list of local providers at the end of their time, suggested we read the CQC reports and asked us to liaise directly with them. They would not recommend any particular one.

@ChocolateTeapot23 where are you based as that is not how it works here (England). No such thing as free assessment care unless the person is straight out of hospital.

@drankthekoolaid - this was following a hospital discharge. Had not realised it was not the norm without a hospital admission.

But my point was that the LA assessment does not really add value and you might as well go direct to a private agency.

I work for SS and if they have savings over £23k I honestly wouldn't bother with an assessment. If you feel they can manage in their own home then contact local care agencies who will do their own assessment. If not contact local residential homes who accept those with a dementia diagnosis. There is no point waiting for an assessment because anyone you use privately will want to do their own anyway.

Google, personal recommendations and the cqc website is your friend is checking out potential options.