Power of Attorney

[Honeysuckleandroses]

I recently moved closer to my elderly mother who is widowed. I have started to look into her affairs, which began with her asking me for help with a specific matter. I find they are quite disorganised. She doesn't understand financial matters at all and is struggling to cope. I also think she's being ripped off and given bad advice.
The problem is that I have a younger sister who I don't really get on with, and who is suspicious of me. She lives at the other end of the country and visits once a year. I also have a younger brother who though he has always lived nearby sees my mother once a year and does nothing for her.
I have asked for POA so that I can investigate some things for my mother and try to organise things, which I am finding really difficult without a legal responsibility. My mother doesn't even want to write any letters.
My sister has insisted that she and my brother also have POA if I do. My cousin is POA at present, but she knows nothing of my mothers affairs and has a very demanding job and lives at the other end of the country. So we will have four POA, but I will do all the work!!
I feel a bit put upon to be honest. Is anyone else in this situation and how did they manage it?

Why dont the four of you sit down together with your mum and ask what help she actually needs and who you all think is best placed to help. If your cousin has been given p.o.a. for her finances then she will either have to give that up or add others to be deputies. All this needs your mothers consent. Does your mum want you to look after her affairs.

Your mother will choose to whom she gives LPA. If she wants you to have it and not the others, that’s that.

She wanted to give it to your cousin who obviously agreed to have it or she wouldn’t be it. Is your cousin aware that action is needed now?

My father appointed my cousin before he died nearly ten years ago. My mother doesn’t not have much of a relationship with my cousin and my cousin doesn’t know anything about her affairs.
My mother does want me to help but my siblings are insisting on also being POA. My siblings and myself are not close. It’s all a bit of a mess.
My mother doesn’t understand her own affairs and needs help badly.

Your father could not appoint anyone on your mother's behalf. Have you checked with the office of the public guardian that your mother has a registered p.o.a. she would have had to sign it herself. Part of having financial p.o.a.is to keep records and your cousin should have been doing this. You can call the opg for advice and your mums bank with her permission. Would she agree to visiting the bank with you to sort a few things out. What does your cousin do with the p.o.a. if she does have it. It's up to your mum who she appoints and how many attorneys she has.

You could have joint and several poa? Worth seeking advice from office of the public guardian. Then all named but you could act but keep siblings informed.
Sounds a tricky situation.

So did your mum just go along with your dad’s suggestion?

Does she have capacity to appoint you?

I just put this on another thread but you could contact the OPG
details at the foot of the page when you scroll down

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian

If your mum doesn’t have capacity things will be different but they can advise you

Does your cousin have.poa for her.or.was.it.for .your.late.father

PS a quicker thing that might help

If your mu has capacity, you can get third party access for her bank account
This will give you a card etc and you can check what she’s doing if you are worried about anything

I think you can also set up online banking but I don’t know because mum won’t let her money go online

But it means I can pay for her shopping etc with her card which is helpful - she is mostly with me for shopping but not always

I am going to the Bank with her next week to find out which accounts are open and which are closed, how much money she has in them etc. It appears that she has several accounts all earning no interest really, and doesn't know which are open! It's a mess. My father set this up for both of them. She never dealt with any financial matters and is really struggling now. My cousin has no idea what is going on and doesn't have any real relationship with her. It's crazy.
I think we will all have to have POA, but it doesn't seem fair when I am doing everything.
I'm going to ask the Bank for third party access, but my mother can become suddenly suspicious and may not agree to this. It's quite hurtful when this happens, but she is elderly and I think beginning to lose the plot.

Why do you all have to have PofA?

You should talk to your mum about third party access first, sorry if that’s obvious.

I take it your mum has capacity but this is all new to her. Similar when my dad died. The accounts not earning interest would make me grrr as well but tbh in terms of management of an oldie they aren’t really important.its making sure the daily financial stuff is in order that matters.

You might be glad others have PofA though - one day you might be away or something and you can tell them to do stuff?

You have my sympathy - we’re in the same situation with PIL, FIL has early dementia and has proven himself not capable of making big decisions, MIL wants us to ‘help’ which means she wants us to do everything but doesn’t want to give DH the power to do it... AARGH

Only your mum can appoint a POA, and only if she still has capacity to make the decision. What you or your other siblings think or want doesn’t matter.

POA kicks in when the person no longer has capacity to make decisions for themselves - does your mother lack capacity, or does she just want your help? Or a financial POA can give you permission to make financial decisions while she still has capacity - is this what she wants?

What does the POA your cousin holds say? Is it finance or health/wellbeing, is if actually for your mum?

And don’t forget health/wellbeing POA in all this, especially if your mum is showing early signs of cognitive decline (which may end up as dementia).

Your mim should go to the bank with you. She has to grant you third party access.. they may ask if anyone has financial p.o.a. so maybe you can get a copy of the paperwork. I would consider siblings being attorneys as there might be times you or mim needs their help

I think we will all have to have POA, but it doesn't seem fair when I am doing everything. There's no benefit to being named as an attorney on a PoA, so no unfairness about siblings being named but not doing anything. All it does is give them a responsibility over matters which they've chosen to have no control - not an enviable situation.

As others have said, it's up to your Mum, and her alone, to appoint attorneys. Sister can't insist on anything. But it might be useful to have them as "spares" in case anything happens while you are on holiday or otherwise unavailable - if you're doing most of it, PoA needs to be set up so you can act "jointly and severally".

There's two stages to the PoA - first stage, once it's drawn up and signed, is to get it registered with the Court of Protection - useful to do this immediately, not wait for when it needs to be used.

Second stage is to allow any organisation you deal with to see a copy of the registered PoA and to register you as an attorney on their records. They don't have to register all the attorneys in one go (or at all). My DF has both me and my DH as attorneys, but it's only me that deals with his finances, and so we've not bothered to get DH registered with the bank/building society. If I went under a bus, DH could take the PoA in to the branch along with the usual id and get himself registered and take over DF's affairs, but meanwhile it's simpler - it means I can open a new savings account for DF without having to drag DH along.

You can't have two PoAs operating at one (imagine the confusion!) so if cousin does have PoA, then that needs sorting out. It looks like you would need to revoke the first one using a Deed of Revocation. www.willpack.co.uk/revoking-an-epa-or-lpa/

maybe if your um does go to the bank with you all she needs to do is ask for a copy of all her accounts then make an appointment with an independent financial advisor. if you use the banks they offer their own services so independent is best. she can then sit down look at exactly what she's got, where it is, what's going out and coming in, standing orders, direct debits etc. if she doesn't want to deal with this herself she can ask any of you to do it for her either with 3rd party or as POA. it's really up to her, if you think she is 'losing the plot' it might be worth the gp doing a capacity assessment because she needs to understand what POA is. Once the forms are completed they are sent to the office of the public guardian, not the court of protection unless she has lost capacity.

www.goughs.co.uk/site/library/goughsnews/i_have_a_third_party_mandate_on_my_bank_account.html

My plan is to go to the bank and then get an independent financial advisor to come in and advise. She wants me to have POA and has agreed to my siblings having it too to keep the peace.

She didn't even understand what POA is until I explained it. It's hard going. She is still okay but getting increasingly confused and never understood her finances in the first place. She just does what the bank say .My father did everything for her and she's clueless.

Good luck with it all.

Once the forms are completed they are sent to the office of the public guardian, not the court of protection unless she has lost capacity. Oops, sorry, you're dead right Hammy - glad you spotted that!

My brother was very suspicious of me, yet unwilling to do anything himself.

In my mothers case, she still does tax returns so I offered that he saw accountant produced tax returns and/or copies of my mothers bank statements. In the event he has opted not to, as this would mean engaging and acknowledging the burden I have. (I have effectively ended up actively managing substantial assets which my brother was unwilling to let me sell.)

You could offer safeguards, say copies of monthly bank statements or have an accountant/third party review figures annually.

Try to have just one attorney. It makes admin much easier. Plus many banks prefer it. They, reasonably, dont want to be caught up in family squabbles.

Hi, I don't think anyone has mentioned this, apologies if I've missed it.

If more than one attorney is named, you can specify whether the attorneys may act ‘jointly’ or ‘jointly and severally’.

‘Jointly’ means permission from all attorneys is needed before you can carry out any instructions

‘Jointly and severally’ means each attorney can act together or on their own – it’s up to attorneys to choose which way they prefer to act.

So if you went for 'jointly and severally' your siblings could officially all 'have POA', but you could still carry out actions on your own (but so could they...). The 'jointly' options sounds like a nightmare tbh.

oh sorry, I see Mere has already said that. It can all be so difficult if the family aren't on the same page with everything, you have my sympathy!