Court case which worries me

[MereDintofPandiculation]

I came across this report while responding to Rosa on the "shiny thread" but I knew about it before and aspects have worried me. I'm not condoning daughter, but I'm too aware of difficulties - my father lost two stone without me knowing, despite seeing him several times a week (and I don't think the carers and district nurses seeing him daily were aware either)

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/latest-news/guiseley-police-worker-jailed-for-letting-mum-82-starve-to-death-1-4729529

Daughter lived with mother. Key factors for prosecution were that both lived in squalor, mother was emaciated, daughter failed to summon medical help.

Defence rested on genuine feeling daughter had for mother, daughter's mental state.

But two things worried me:

Daughter "acknowledged in her evidence that she had sufficient funds not to need to go to work."

Police said after case "As sole carer to her sick and elderly mother, Angela Pearson had a responsibility to make sure she was properly cared for"

• in other words, an expectation that daughter should be carer, and that she should give up work to do so. (Although the police statement suggests that she was responsible for getting care in place, not necessarily for providing it).

These are very specific circumstances. They lived together and despite the claimed depression the daughter was able to function in a responsible job which means that she washed her clothes and kept herself clean and she clearly wasn't malnourished herself. She allowed someone who was bed-bound to suffer a painful and avoidable death. It was admitted that she had the funds to care for her mother and had she not wished to do so she could have involved the services of social services/the local council. No matter what the relationship was like between them as a human being she should have either looked after her mother properly or involved others in her care.

That's very true, this is an extreme case - but where is the dividing line? If you have capacity, and choose to refuse outside help, while not eating a good diet and not keeping yourself clean, at what stage are your children held responsible?

It is entirely possible for a person who has the ability to consent to refuse help, however, if that person is in poor health and dependent on outside help then you either supply that help or involve the authorities who have a responsibility to do so. Then if they still refuse assistance their is a record. At the very least they would have done something about the unsanitary conditions and arrange treatment for the pressure sores. Whether the person wanted it done or not it would have been in their best interests.

Provided that you have taken all reasonable steps to provide care or request that others do so then the police/cps/courts aren't going to be interested in prosecuting.

@MereDintofPandiculation
Her daughter failed to alert or involve other services or agencies, it was a a huge safeguarding that should have had everyone working together.

She hid her mother's hoarding, self neglect and that she was literally starving and had open pressure wounds which must have been excruciating . Daughter caused some of that neglect leading to what was a painful death.

This isn't about a woman expected to care unpaid for her mother. This is simply about neglect and not doing anything whilst watching someone die slowly and painfully. We don't know if mother had capacity, nor whether she was sectionable under MHA at that stage, as daughter didn't tell anyone or ring health professionals. Neglect by omission is just as deadly.

Yes, I agree with what everyone is saying about this case ... but some of the principles worry me. I'm quite certain that I don't want people working "in my best interest" to keep my body alive when my mind is going. And how much going against my father's instructions "in his best interests" can I do before I lose his trust, and he feels utterly alone in the world?

Its barbaric.

The woman had some of the worst bed sores seen by the pathologist in over 15 years. The smell must have been overpowering and the pain indescribable.

The mother was subjected to extreme neglect. The daughter was away at an arts and crafts fair for 3 days just before her mother died.

You have a duty as a bloody human being to ensure noone dies like that. There are no excuses for it. That poor elderly woman starved to death in a filthy, stinking room surrounded by her own urine jars and faecal matter in most certain awful pain.

I'd have no leniency. At all.

Apologies- that came across as quite shouty 😳

I'm going to drop out of this. I shouldn't have used this case which is an extreme, when I was more concerned about where the limits are when an elder is refusing care.

Well the extreme example aside, it's about capacity and mental health.

Are they able to make decisions?
Do they understand consequences of not receiving treatment/medication/support?
How much are they able to do for themselves?
Would they accept help/support of someone else ie friends/paid carer etc

Has social services/GP/appointed guardian being contacted? Are all parties aware of the situation?

Not doing anything is as bad as illtreating someone.

It wasnt about the woman giving up her job. She totally and absolutely neglected her mother and failed to provide the most basic of needs for someone who gave life to her.

In your father's case there are loads of options OP- referral to speech and language, are his teeth/dentures too big that makes him unable to eat?(weight loss can affect gums etc) Has he been seen by a GP to rule out underlying medical conditions? Is he able to ensure regular nutrition and meals- there are services that can help with this.

There are loads of fortifying options too to get extra calories in and there are specific caloried drinks/yoghurts for elderly people.

I hope you are getting the support that you need to look after your dad.

The case is not the same. You visit regularly to ensure his well being and he receives carers daily. Complete opposite ends of the situation you are facing.

OP, if you are worried about your dad now, then make sure you talk to someone, GP, adult services, etc...
Each situation is very different due to specific circumstances involved & impact of self neglect. Someone refusing to wash everyday and only twice a week, is unlikely to die from that unless they are for eg incontinent and have developing open sores, or skin condition or very poor hygiene otherwise; someone refusing to eat properly might be snacking on cakes and biscuits, but it's a higher risk if they are losing significant weight, falling due to micro (vitamin) malnutrition /have uncontrolled diabetes and are risking a diabetic coma.

It won't help to think up hypothetical scenarios as it depends very much on a multitude of factors and risks at that time . The key is not to hide it but share any genuine concerns you have with services, and each time there is a deterioration or more risks- because multi agency support strategies offered can be fluid and change quickly.

I’ve looked up other reports about this

It does appear that the daughter took on the role of carer herself, from what I can understand. So it’s not that she didn’t volunteer for the task and just got stuck with it.

It reminds me a bit of the Collyer brothers.