Mother in home. What to do re house ?

[Grinchly]

Hello

Mother, 88, with lots of chronic health issues ( heart failure, AF diabetes, etc as well as Alzheimer's ) is now in a care home.

This has been coming for some time. Was propped up at home with carer visits but no longer sustainable.

She's self funding. I have EPA and have ensured there's plenty of ready cash so no urgent need to sell the house.

My dilemma is: do I sell the house for her now and invest the proceeds (wibble) or wait perhaps till next Spring when Brexit things may be clearer? Or get tenants in?

It's in a desirable area and well maintained and should sell reasonably quickly. I've had it valued by three agents and also asked advice re letting to at least provide her some extra income.

They all recommend if letting, I replace the bathroom ( it is very bad) and maybe knock down wall between bathroom and separate loo to make it rentable. But that will cost several thousand K.

Solicitors have suggested I may need permission to do this from Court of Protection, and even to let it I should check with them.

My instinct is to leave it till next year, turn off water, arrange vacancy insurance and check every week when I visit.

But by then the economy and the housing market could have gone to hell in a handcart.

What would you do?

Thanks in advance

Anyone

I would get the work done and let it, make it earn some cash to postpone the day when you need to sell it. New bathroom will make it easier to sell too

I would inclined to invest some cash in a new bathroom (not sure about the wall) and rent it out.

Hard to know.... if you feel able to take on ,or farm out the refurb and rental out..... we had issues with the second lot of tenants in pils house and the agent was useless.
First rental was fine.
I suggest redirecting all the post via po ASAP. What will be less stress for you?

With all those issues ask for a continuing care assessment. Can't help with the house though

I'm not really expecting the economy to go to hell in a handcart

otherwise I'd wait it out, because I'm looking to relocate near to my elderly mother - if I thought prices would drop I'd wait and try to buy after a crash.

Obviously I can't predict the future though.

if you have LPA why do you need to apply to the Court of Protection? Also I think in your case it would be a pain to try and sell the house in a hurry so I'd be inclined to sell it, after all it's clear your mum needs the £ for care.

I suppose a lot of this depends where you are and your view on Brexit. In and around London, the money in the housing market isn't linked IMHO.

I have EPA not LPA, and no Mother doesn't need to release the funds from house yet.

Suggestions

There was a discussion in property section about a separate toilet & separate bathroom. The consensus was NOT to knock the wall down & keep them separate. This means, if someone is in the bath for hours, the toilet is still free for others to use

What is wrong with bathroom ?
My suite is not a fashionable color, but it is fully functional

If you are going to rent it out
You need landlord insurance
Who will vet & manage the tenants yourself or an agency.
Do you have funds for emergency maintenance ?
What will you do with all your DM possessions, store in loft ?
You will need to complete a self assessment tax form on behalf of your DM to HMRC for the income earned

Personally, I would not spend any money doing it up. I'd rent it at a lower cost, rent as seen
You need a gas safety certificate
You need electric safety certificate
Lots to think about, lots of responsibility

I'm sorry that you have been left with this to deal with.
Your instincts may not be the easiest route. I recently paid through the nose for vacant insurance for a flat which had to be with a specialist insurer, so watch out for that.
If the agents agreed that the bathroom will need to be refurbished then it does need it. I find that they always want to let quickly, so they are probably right. Would that be easy to organise?
An occupied property is always easier especially over the winter. Your unoccupied insurance will require you to visit every week. Can you do that?
I think the worst advice is to let it as is for a lower rent. You are aiming for high quality tenants with high standards. Works for me.

Look at the tax implications if there might be liability for CGT.

If there has been a substantial gain you either sell it now as a primary, so tax exempt, residence. Or wait till after probate.

I would consider renting it and getting an income to help pay for the care home.

My mother owns a lot of property which my dad bought as a retirement hobby. It has been a lot of work, both to get everything up to the standards modern renters require, and on going.

I would not advise anyone to go into BTL unless they have experience or have a good commercial brain and are reasonably assertive. I would especially not advise anyone to rent out property until we know what will happen with the current section 21 proposals. Nor unless the property is a good letting prospect (10 minutes walk to a station etc...)

FaerieQueene , are you a landlord?

What MrsApplepants said.

Thanks everyone, and waves at the sandwich

Lots of differing views here, much of it reflecting my own thoughts.

I've already explored the vacant property insurance and got a quote that looks pretty reasonable. I will be visiting weekly.

I would employ agents if letting yet it still sounds a hell of a lot of work. I have limited free time as I work fulltime in a busy role.

My main responsibility is to act in her best interests; and it is tempting to get some extra income to offset the care home fees, (net rental income monthly would pay for a week's care or thereabouts) but I also do not want to land myself with a whole load of extra hassle and stress, because if I go under, she has no one else to sort anything. Neither would I want to do that to myself!

I'm speaking to an IFA on Weds from a firm I've used before to see what their perspective is.

Thanks to the person who mentioned changes to S 21 - that looks to be about eviction, am I right?

My friends mum was like this when she went into care. The home were wonderful, however, £240K later she died. So be careful unless you have this kind of ready cash available the house may be needed.

Yes. It is a Tory proposal which is currently under consultation. There is strong resistance fromlandlord organisations, as it will make life very difficult. Corbyn's proposals are worse...lots worse.

Essentially you would lose the flexibility of fixed term contracts and being able to issue a S21 giving tenants 2 months notice to leave. Good for tenants as it would give them security of tenure, but potentially a real problem if you needed the flexibility of selling her property to pay care bills.

Honestly, and I wear the T shirt, there is not a lot of money in BTL anymore. Letting agents are often not great, there is a huge downside risk and potentially a lot of stress. Plus the CGT point I made before.

Property prices will fall if S21 changes or Corbyn come in. Unless you want to hold onto the property, I would sell. You need your energy for your mum.

That's a useful perspective needmoresleep, thanks.

Justasking I know this can happen but it's shocking to be confronted with the reality. How old was the person when they went into care?

I'm concerned about the potential for a house price crash next year too, given the current state of politics...

late 80`s lived till mid nineties. She died three weeks after the money ran out. Living in a home improved her health physically because she had such good care and was stimulated by the company she had there. She even imagined she was having an affair with an old boy there who we ironically also knew. They used to hide her when the old boys wife visited.

Renting out the property may not generate enough per month to pay for the care & you would need to deduct agents fees, maintenance repairs & it's lots of time & responsibility

I would suggest you speak to the care home about payments
Age Concern may also offer you some advice

It is difficult times ahead

Take care of yourself too

Hi King

No, the net income, taking all that into account would pay for about a week max, as I explained

I still think sell it

Just doesn’t seem worth doing it any other way

First, get LPA. Better than EPA.

Sell the house, then you won’t have the hassle/worry when your mother dies. I’ve got the t-shirt!

I would sell the house now. It will save a lot of anxiety in the future. It might be worth checking with the OPG if need permission from the CoP.
Sorry to hear about your mum.

Checking whether you need CoP permission is a good idea. However (another T shirt!) its not OPG, but rather the Land Registry who may demand to see CoP permission.

Once you decide to sell I would instruct a solicitor immediately and ask them to check. The LR has become a lot more fussy recently so I/my solicitor got caught out by a late demand. The CoP is possibly the slowest Government organisation of all time. Its a simple transaction yet we are almost 12 months in, and no word. My private theory is they are hoping some cases will resolve themselves by the person dying. They did however issue a strange request that the solicitor serve papers on my mother and get her signature. DM is 10 years into dementia and cant always remember how to sign her name and her willingness to do anything depends on her mood. (No chance of her understanding the document.) I endered up having to prep the solicitor on how to manage her mood. (Take in a packet of custard creams, then as she tucks in, whip out the document and pen.)

You might also get four sets of agents in now. Quiz each of them on the market and what work they think needs doing. Then you have a good idea who to instruct when you are ready. Dont forget to ask them what commission they would charge.

This is really helping to crystalllise my thinking.

@Needmoresleep, do you mean it could take 12 months for OPG to give permission to sell? 😱 Or was this caused because they were only approached late in the day? I have experienced their inefficiency handling my father's affairs but 12 months is insane! Your insights are incredibly useful, thank you.