Elderly in laws in denial

[user87382294757]

about ageing...work..everything really. Wondered if anyone else had the same or any advice.

Ours have a shop they run but it isn't working out, however they won;t give it up and we worry what will happen in the future. They are late 70s now. It costs a lot in rent and causes them a lot of worry.

It is good to have independence and in a way the shop keeps them going with a routine etc but it also has rickety stairs and requires upkeep as does their house - but they won't have any help - and then moan and worry about it all

It is frustrating having them moan but then not accept help or seem willing to change anything.

MIL can't drive and is pretty dependant on FIL who has a COPD type illness which is getting worse and he was recently hospitalised for it. It is now causing scarring in the lungs and there is talk of oxygen being needed next, he is struggling to walk up stairs etc.

Has anyone had this situation and is there anything can be done. They get angry if we talk about it and seem to be in denial, talk about how they will go online and get a fancy new phone or something and that might be the solution - but we tried helping with that as they can't use the computer which didn't work out as it 'wasn't right'

I guess it will be the case of it all happening at once, one will get worse and we will end up trying to sort it all out. They live out of town as well.

It must be hard, I've had similar issue with an elderly relative. My DH is in his 70s and not in good health, I'm five years younger and want to make changes and keep telling him he can't keep relying on me being able to do things he can't, I'm in good health but anything can happen at any time and one thing is definite and that is that I'm getting older as well. He finds it hard to accept as I am so much fitter than him.

All I can do is keep on with the message and bit by bit things get done, I just hope we get enough done.

It is hard to accept the inevitable sometimes, perhaps I am unusual in seeing it clearly but maybe that is because I have been his carer for 30 years and that has sharpened my eyesight.

I think all you can do is to keep on delivering the message. Good luck.

Thanks devondumpling to be honest we aren't really giving any message- as they would get angry and defensive- however a lady died in a similar shop recently (falling down the stairs) so maybe that has given them a shock.

It's really hard as it seems to keep them going also- but DH is self employed, I am a SAHM who also has health problems, and DH's other family live abroad or also have illness to deal with and sometimes it feels like they (in laws) could make things easier for themselves. But there we go. It is their choice at the end of the day.

But there we go. It is their choice at the end of the day. Yes, it is. Autonomy can be really important to quality of life.

Let them know of things that might help them, but then let them get on with it. Don't be dragged into putting things right for them yourself. It will probably take a crisis before they accept help. But accepting that you're past it, that your body is crumbling and your mind is going, is dead scary when you know it's one-way with no possibility of a recovery.

Have they got capacity to make good judgements, if not it's time to look into legally taking over their affairs

Hmm, not sure really. FIL would not like that at all, he would refuse and be very angry. there was a thing recently, the council were going to put the rates up on their shop and it looked like they might have to leave it, but then they talked to them and said they could leave with only 3 months notice so that's something. Think it used to be 3 years.

Thing is, it would mean moving all the stock (heavy / bulky) and also there are things like upkeep / maintenance of the (old, listed) building to consider. People talk about clearing out elderly people's houses but not also a shop as well.

Yes I understand about accepting but there is a difference between feeling you are giving up and just making changes for the future to be as independent as possible. They could give up the shop and buy a nice ground level flat in town instead - that would have been a much better option - instead of having a large rambling house in the country and a shop to manage also. And the daily commute / being in a shop 9-5 daily.

User it is hard. I've had to be brutally honest with DH. Our children live along way away and if they come for a visit they don't want to spend it sorting out his hoarding. I have been clear that if we don't do it now it will come to a time when I can't do it all with him directing from his armchair and that will end with the lot getting taken away in skips with us paying for it. I think I've got through to him but it has taken along time and moods and sulks and anger along the way. I dont think people can understand if they don't live with it.

I wonder if any help from the council if you have to clear it all out Dumpling? Yes i winder if this is hoarding in a way. They seem very attached to it all and it is all very personal, and don't seem to want to sell some of it Not easy. My own dad is also a hoarder. He is in sheltered accommodation, and they don't seem to mind. Bit as much as i thought.

Excuse typos, a bit tired

Of course they won't listen to you, mere child that you are what do you know🙈
It's extremely frustrating but I wonder if the message needs to come from a source that they trust and feel has some authority?

OP I don’t think you can do much about this, if they want to keep their shop and home that’s their choice

But re the skips and hoarding etc

If it’s literally going to cost you a fortune when they go, then I’d maybe mention that. I have known people have to clear hoarder homes, it’s a lot of expense. It seems unfair to pass that expense to others.

I just thought, I don’t know what happens if no one can afford to do it. I suppose whoever owns the property has to do it in the end.

Is the shop some kind of income as well? What would they do without it? Or is it only a cost to them?

From bitter experience (well, not that bitter, but bad enough) I would say that you have to wait for a crisis. Don't think that if only you could get them to do x, or y, that it would be much better. Probably once they stop doing the shop they WILL go downhill because they are forcing themselves to keep going, and it probably does make them be more active. Without that, the hoarding would probably only get worse, and their health probably as well. Sitting at home on oxygen waiting to conk out is pretty awful too.

Confused post but my message is just this - don't feel guilty, that you should be doing something. And don't let some distant relative's comment make you feel you should. Believe me, those same relatives will be quick to blame you for 'forcing them to do X' if you actually take action. Just keep saying it as you see it 'well, if you didn't have the shop you could enjoy more fresh air/rest more/move to the seaside'. It's also OK to say that you worry about them, even if they just dismiss it. Be honest but you don't actually have to force them to do anything.

This thread is full of people saying they'd be better in a "nice ground level flat", that they should be told they need to declutter, etc. But DH and I are pretty well in the same age group - there's no way I intend at the moment to move from the house we love, the garden we love, into a flat where we don't have room for our stuff, we don't have room to get away from each other, and we have to worry about noise annoying our neighbours. And what is the point of life if I have to dispose of all my possessions, all the things that are important to what I do every day?

Hopefully I'll realise when it's becoming unsustainable. But that's the argument for letting things run to a crisis - it's one thing to give up your lifestyle when you realise you can no longer sustain it, quite another to be berated by other people into giving it up.

Is the shop some kind of income as well? What would they do without it? Or is it only a cost to them?

Rates seem to be around 10K a year I think (if not more) and they are not selling much, don't want to go into more detail as a bit outing. But no they are not making an income from it it is more of a drain. They seem to think they can go online but we tried to help with that also and it didn't work out. "wasn't right'- I don't know how they afford to keep it going to be honest.

Yes, I get it about not being hounded into stopping something (which is why we don't do that) but then we have to out up with the moaning about it not making money / people poking around and not buying etc. I just kind of change the subject now.

I guess also it is DH's parents so p to him and his other siblings to deal with it really. At least there are more of them, I guess.

It's funny but it has really made me think about the future, and I would be glad to move into a ground floor flat in town and have everything nearby. Guess we are all different though. I can see how another older lady benefits from that lifestyle after her husband died.

I think changing the subject or not engaging might be the best way forward, that way they can make their own mind up and whatever happens at least they can't blame it on you!

Yes that is true! My dad (different situation) is in sheltered housing lives alone, and he well, seemed to want me to support him - but I am in a different country! After a while he has sorted himself out somehow with a church lunch group, and a cleaner! So yes maybe sometimes saying nothing and letting them get on with it is the way to go, from that experience anyway. No-one wants to feel patronised do they. Might be a case also of stepping in when needed in an emergency too, and we are closer in distance to inlaws

After a while he has sorted himself out somehow with a church lunch group, and a cleaner! So yes maybe sometimes saying nothing and letting them get on with it is the way to go, from that experience anyway. No-one wants to feel patronised do they
that does make sense!
If we are too available if we let them lean on us too much perhaps it is patronising and infantilising, we should step back and have some confidence that our parents will sort themselves out?

Maybe it is a balance of not rushing in and taking over, but kind of seeing how they get on? It is hard sometimes as my dad is quite vulnerable and would love me to just take over. I think being in sheltered housing is quite helpful, as it is good knowing there is a warden there to keep an eye- although once he didn't tell them he was visiting someone and I had the police at my door going on about 'no sign of life' in his flat. I asked if they had tried his mobile and no-one had. He is quite like that so wouldn't think of the worry to others etc. Anyway...yes i guess this has also made me think of in laws as their situation just seems so much more 'busy' and difficult to manage if anything did go wrong..but that is them. My dad is lucky in a way to have the council sheltered housing and he said it even has another wing which is for people needing more support- so that is set up for them and as he has atrial fibrillation if anything did happen more chance of returning home to his housing (with support coming in) that being shunted into a home.

I would say that my dad is perhaps better at accepting help from others than FIL and maybe that is helpful also. he doesn't seem to regard that as a negative thing. maybe as he sorted it out himself too.

I have learnt that people make their own choices. Some choices, might not be the best choice.
Sometimes, due to circumstances, choice is removed
Sometimes, you need to take a step back and see what happens