Letter to GP regarding Dad driving.

[DeloresJaneUmbridge]

Feeling so guilty but also relieved.

Dad had a stroke five weeks ago and thankfully because I was with him at the time was seen and treated very quickly. He had some surgery to clear a blocked artery after the stroke and has been home nearly four weeks.

The advice is not to drive for five weeks and he is due to see the doctor on Monday for permission.

As a family we have concerns about this because we can see a change in Dad since the stroke. He’s much more vague (has an additional diagnosis of mixed dementia) and falls asleep easily and rapidly sitting in an armchair ....this is more pathological than simply nodding off due to being relaxed and a bit sleepy.

Thing is that when seeing the doctor he will literally put on a front and good face. It would be easy for him to fool the GP.

So this morning I’ve written a letter to the GP and will drop it in to them with a note asking the GP to read it if he has time before Dad’s appointment.

We’ve spoken to Dad about our concerns but he is adamant he is fine and to be honest seems obsessed with getting back to driving again. I can understand that but I need to think of his safety and that of other road users.

What if he was to nod off when sitting in traffic? Or even worse on a motorway?

Last year he was assessed by a Driveability team who found him fit to drive. This was after cognitive testing and also a driving assessment. I am not so sure he would pass it now.

Feeling so guilty about possibly getting his licence removed ....but know I would feel worse if he was to seriously injure someone/himself or worse kill someone on the road.

We had an issue with DGF and peripheral neuropathy and dementia- thankfully the mechanic advised him that his car was likely to fail it's MOT and did he still want it carried out. There was bugger all wrong with the car, but it was easier for him to accept this than
to accept that than he was no longer fit. Unethical yes, but safer for the rest of the world definitely.

Runwalkrun while I appreciate your opinion and understand it we are talking about a man who dozed off driving back from the next town a few weeks ago. It was momentarily and he woke up when he hit the kerb.....but that kerb could have been a child.

Believe me I love and adore my Dad so much...too much to see him put himself or anyone else at risk. This is not about taking away his independence but about keeping him safe and other people safe. If you look further back you will see a link to a blog post from a man whose wife was killed by an elderly driver who should not have been on the road.

I don't want my Dad to be in the position of being that driver.

Are you joking runwalkrun? Two of my self-employed friends have been put out out of action by elderly drivers mounting the pavement. But hey, as long as they retained their independence & fuck anyone else's earnings & life.

And I only found out about the "dozing off at the wheel momentarily" incident today from my Mum.

Independence doesn't mean having a car.

My Dad can be fully independent without it.

The bus stop is outside their flat, they can and do use the bus to go to town.

They get out for walks locally with the dog.

Dad regularly walks to the nearby shopping area for illicit chocolate (he's diabetic).

I can get them to other places if needed...the station for a train to London etc.

He doesn't need a car.

Well done for tackling such a difficult thing.

deloresits not a fun responsibility to have. Am so sorry, in my area we have 'mybus' is that something in your parents Area?

OP hasn't taken his independence. OP hasn't taken his license, she doesn't have the authority. All she's done is given some info / judgement. If OP is wrongly concerned, her dad will continue to drive. People don't automatically have their licenses revoked because family are worried.

My DM(69) was killed last year in a car accident. Her older partner was driving and they think he nodded off at the wheel. He survived but can't remember. You're doing the right thing. Human life trumps independence.

Just don't know where to begin with this update....just don't even know.

Dad phoned DVLA yesterday who promptly rode roughshod over what the GP had said.

GP's exact words when Dad asked if he could drive were "I would rather you didn't until you've heard from the DVLA".

DVLA have basically ignored that....Dad apparently repeated the exact words to them according to my Mum. They will wait to hear from his GP but until then he can drive he feels able to.....the usual basic self responsibility stuff. Trouble is that Dad feels able to drive....and says if he thought he wasn't safe he would stop.

Now there is no denying that my Dad looks and feels better since his surgery. But he still has the propensity to drop off to sleep at times....and we are not talking just a relaxed doze here but a fairly rapid nodding off.

My concern is that if he is stuck in traffic he might do this. Not to mention his risks of another stroke while driving....had he been driving when the stroke happened he could have killed someone.

And so yesterday he went out fully ready to drive to the garden centre but the car wouldn't start (someone somewhere is on my side). He promptly rings me and asks for a jump start ....but thankfully I was at work.

Even worse....part of my letter to the GP was based upon observations my Mum has made and her insistence that he really should not be driving. And yet yesterday she was ready to get in the car with him to go to the garden centre,

I could scream....I could honestly scream.

So current situation is that the car will not start so he can't drive it.

Trust me ....I will be far too busy to jump start the bloody thing.

My mum's partner thought he was safe. As well as killing my mum in the accident he killed a younger woman too, and badly injured two others.
Do not help him start that car.

Its terrifying Dolores no one wants to be the one who says 'no more' Again hugely feel for you!

Remove the spark plugs - then a jump start won't do a thing.

Like our DGF if the car was irreparable would they purchase another? Am not advocating criminal damage but is it working yet?

As Fairfax said!

Also I'd be having a stern word with DM. Maybe if she refused to get in the car with him it might force him to realise he's NOT safe.

Car isn't working....I am not jump starting it. Am fuming with the DVLA and with my Mum. Got onto my brothers and sister last night...my youngest brother is likely to have got straight on the phone to them. Will be interesting to see what today brings.

Currently he is off the road.

You definitely did the right thing OP, I know it must be difficult to see him upset but as you say he would be devastated if he had been the cause of an accident.

My elderly uncle was very upset when he lost his license in similar circumstances, stroke, but not dementia, he was a little happier when he purchased a mobility scooter, men of a certain age, need their wheels so it seems, it gave him some freedom again.

Don’t feel bad, you did the right thing.

Oh no,sorry OP didn’t see the update, you must be worried sick, have you spoken to DVLA and GP again?

Did anyone else hear the piece on radio 2 on this? We have some of the most lax laws in Europe for driving into old age. They had a story about a man who’s eye sight had deteriorated so much he ran 2 people down at a pedestrian crossing (one with a green men and red light) because he basically had pin pricks of vision.
It’s shocking, my gran should have been off the road years ago but she kept going right up until she died. Every stop was an emergency stop as she couldn’t see properly, I remember being petrified as a kid (she died when I was a kid so wasn’t aware of informing dvla).
My DHs grandad is currently technically ‘fit to drive’ but he can’t read a book as he loses his place 20 times, he can’t walk anymore, he can’t turn his head/body properly and is very forgetful.
Yet, no dr has said anything to the dvla.
He’s living with my in laws and I’ve told them he is not to drive! They’ve luckily agreed (but did let him drive to get a paper last week ), but said that was it.
Sorry to ramble on, but I feel passionately about this after hearing the horrible stories on radio 2 last week! You did the right thing op. We need to have stricter rules in this country, and not rely on self reporting to the dvla.

CPtart, so sorry, how awful for you.

I feel very strongly about this, obviously.
My now deceased GM was just as bad. She was driving in her late 80's and didn't realise she'd hit two cars in the doctors' car park until the police came knocking at her door.

DVLA can only advise this until a driving assessment has been done unfortunately - I've spoken to one of their assessors. They suggested I spoke to my patient and asked them to reflect on their driving and their specific issue - for your DF falling asleep - and how they would feel if that happened to them and caused an accident eg the one in Glasgow which killed numerous people at the Christmas market.

It would be worth pointing out to your DF that elderly people can be and are sent to prison for this if they cause death by dangerous driving. His health condition would not be an excuse - in fact that he knew he was unwell and carried on regardless would be seen very negatively.

In the light of my very doom-laden lectures, either my patients have given up or their families have nicked their car keys. For my FIL we also did the failure to jump start the car for a while until he saw reason.

I'd go back to GP and ask them to do a referral for driving assessment if he really won't give up. The driving assessment people are great and a lot of the assessment is about insight.

You are doing the right thing. It is heartbreaking though and we’ve just been through similar with my grandfather.
I also have a close family member who was killed by an elderly person who shouldn’t have driving due to vision problems so I really feel for you trying to do the right thing here.

Thank you Hulder and everyone else.

Yes have done that with Dad...he is still adamant that he is fine but by great miracles the car has packed up it seems. Even a jumpstart from a neighbour wouldn't get it going.

Last time there was concern he was assessed by Drivability who were brilliant as they did both cognitive and driving assessments and to be fair he aced both. I am hoping that this will be suggested again and I think that's what his GP is hoping for too.