scammers targeting the elderly

[tothesideoftheirlives]

I'm posting this as a warning to everyone really. It concerns companies that phone and persuade people to sign up to insurance plans, mainly home appliance, central heating cover. Although they probably target many people, it is the elderly and vulnerable that get taken in by these scammers.

Some years ago my brother and me took over my parents bank accounts after we got power of attorney and discovered they were paying out vast sums of money to various companies for insurance plans that covered their central heating system and home appliances. In fact, they had four insurance policies covering their gas central heating alone, plus other 'insurance' policies. Immediately we cancelled them all and thought that would be the end of the story.

What we hadn't reckoned with is that by now my parents' details were on lists circulated and despite being on the telephone preference service they were inundated with calls to take out new insurance policies. By this time both my parents had dementia and of course kept saying yes on the phone. We repeatedly phoned these companies and cancelled direct debits. We got money refunded when we threatened to inform the police. Its been a never-ending job keeping an eye on their accounts.

Then last week we found another company had set up a direct debit for fridge insurance!!! This company was based in my home city, actually just round the corner from where I work so I decided to give them a visit. What I found was an office with no sign on the door, set up with about 15 telephonists, but it looked like they had just moved in and could pack up and move out within an hour. To cut a long story short I confronted the two 20somethings who appeared to be in charge. I don't think this had ever happened before, and they did let slip some important information about how they work.

The most important thing I found out from them is that if you cancel one of these policies and ask not to be phoned again, they say its cancelled, but this is not really the case, your name is put on another list to be phoned back to renew - they said this was to check you really meant to cancel, but really its to get the vulnerable person on their own without the relative or carer present so they can set up a new policy. So remember if you think you've cancelled the policy keep an eye out for phone calls or new direct debits.

Also the telephone preference service is rubbish - these companies ignore it completely. So be aware that you will still get phone calls.

I am going to report as many of these companies as possible to trading standards, but I just wanted people to be made aware of what they do.

It makes me sick companies targeting vulnerable people like this.

My mum is not what I would consider vulnerable at this stage, but since my dad died I worry that she will eventually become a target for this type of thing.

Thank you for the heads up.

If you have power of attorney you can arrange it so no new direct debits or even payments are authorised except by you.

I have had an issue several times with my own non-demented but easily-led mother. I have written a note 'no personal details' and stuck it to her phone to remind her not to tell ANYONE her name age etc over the phone. Would this work with your parents?

I do think ppl scamming old people over the phone are lowest of the low :(

We do have power of attorney and I'm certain we asked the bank not to do any more new direct debits - but they still appeared.

There has also been a massive note over the phone about no personal details etc., but as her dementia has progressed she has just ignored this. I think they scare her with stories about what would happen should something break down.

One thing we have done is scribble out the cvs number on the back of her card (kept a note of it elsewhere) as this might prevent some companies from setting up DD.

Unfortunately once card details are on a list there doesn't seem much you can do to stop them except cancel the card. We have cancelled one card already, may even go for changing her phone number as well.

The most shocking thing was that even if you cancel they don't do it straight away, but try ringing again - I'm not sure they really meant to tell me that!

I am amazed that I actually went into the company's office and confronted them, but my dad died last weekend and I was filled with such anger at people who can scam vulnerable people that I overcame all my normal politeness and just walked in calmly and asked question after question. At the end I asked how they would feel if their parents had been treated this way - they didn't have an answer to that - doubt it made much of a difference to them though.

Sad to hear about your dad, OP :(

That's a good idea about the number on the back of the card. We might copy that one.

Do tell the bank again about power of attorney. They may need to see the legal document before they prevent any activity on the account.

One other way this scam works is to say they're calling back in response to a query. I know they do this as I intercepted a call once, and they told me my mother had sent in a card asking for details. Of course she had not and in any case she can't see well enough to fill one out. But a confused older person might think they had, and gad forgotten.

Good for you for confronting them.

Thank you tiktok

That is interesting about the query, as these guys kept saying she would have done a survey and ticked a box for more information, which I'm pretty certain was a lie. But market research surveys are one way they get what they call 'permission' to phone.

My mum was very fond of doing surveys or market research as she liked to chat to people, and I'm sure this is where some of it stems from. As far as I am concerned now all market research people are just fronts for gaining these 'permissions' to phone and pester people. The whole of market research is dodgy.

I had this with my mother when I took over as POA 4 years ago. She had no less than 12 different types of protection for her Sky box alone, three from the same company. These are often 3 year contracts with premiums increasing regularly.

I ended up:

1. Changing her phone number. (She was moving to sheltered housing anyway.) By the point at which I took over she was pretty much plagued with these calls.

1. Taking away her cheque book and replacing it with a debit card on a savings account which did not allow either direct debits or overdrafts. I also closed the problematic bank account which was the only way to stop the direct debits.

1. I typed up, and got her to sign, formal letters confirming these 'protections' were to be stopped immediately. One or two were insurances so there I suggested I would complain to the FCA, the regulatory body. With 'protections' I acknowledged that they fell outside the FCA regulatory framework but said I planned to write anyway as I felt my (ie my mums) vulnerability had been exploited at a point when I had been recently widowed. I asked for confirmation and money back.

Everyone replied confirming that they had cancelled the contracts, though my mum got very little of her money back. Her new number is not on any of these lists so she gets virtually no junk calls.

I would suggest contacting trading standards at your local council, they are often very good at giving advice, contacting companies and in some areas will come out and give advice/ practice/ implement strategies.

needmoresleep that sounds like a similar situation. I wish we had thought about changing her phone number earlier, but we believed we had cancelled everything and she had been taken off the company's lists, but as we now know this means nothing and being on the TPS means nothing.

It is terrible that people have to take such drastic action of changing phone numbers and closing bank accounts.

My brother and me are compiling a list of companies, directors and other information and we will are going to report them all to trading standards.

I phoned a local trading standards or similar and their advice was that the first step was to write cancelling contracts. Only when companies failed to respond could I take complaints further.

I think they knew exactly how far they could push it, in that I/My mum did get confirmation that contracts were cancelled but after 'cancellation fees' not much money was returned. But at least no more was lost.

The FCA regulates insurers. My understanding was that they were looking at 'protection providers' but dont know how far this has gone. (In the letter I hinted I has inside knowledge but didnt!) If anything were don't these would be the people to do it.

Watch out for automatic renewal letters. These seem to be sent half way through a three year contract and involve hefty price increases, effectively meaning you are tied in for years. Which is why the letter sent was clear that my mother wanted the contracts terminated or she would take further action.

Actually most then phoned. She had moved so I was able to confirm that the contracts were terminated. Thinking about it, if they had got my mum they might have tried to get her, verbally, to alter this instruction.

Done, not don't!

There have been several threads on this this before, and I remember one about a model of phone where you could put in certain phone numbers( friends and family) to go through as normal, any other numbers/with held numbers etc had to go through screening. Does that make sense? So any 'unknown' calls would go to you first, and you could then put them through to your DP if they were OK, but tell the scam callers to fuck off. Would that work? I'll try to find the phone model and get back to this thread.

BT 8600

home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/phones-tablets/how-bt-is-tackling-nuisance-calls-11364136280225

Thanks FadedRed that phone looks interesting, will look into that.

Yes needmoresleep the phone call after the cancellation call or letter designed to make you change your mind and hoping the vulnerable person doesn't have anybody with them.

This area certainly needs way more regulation. I know something was supposed to have been done about cold callers, but these people find numerous ways of saying they have been given 'permission' to ring and so are not cold calling.

So many scams it's frightening! People phoning about virus on home computer, people agree for person to visit the house, the scammer uploads a virus that has a time delay and appears in a few weeks time, they leave their contact details, they are called back and they charge to remove the virus or set another time delay for reappearance. Also scammers selling landline phone blocking gadgets that don't block unwanted calls. Scammers selling windows, solar panels, burglar alarms and conservatories for hugely inflated prices. People buying unwanted stuff, because they are promised the chance of a prize win of some money. Scammers pretending to be banks. Scammers trying to launder drug money from abroad. The list is endless....

One scam to look out for: the bank phoning your parent to say they've noticed some fraudulent activity on the bank card, so they have stopped it and will reissue them with a new one. They'll send a courier round to the house to drop off the new card, but will make sure of security checks by getting your parent to key in their PIN number before getting their new card.

Of course, it's a scam. It's not the bank at all and there's been no fraudulent activity, but there's about to be: the conman gets away with your parent's card and PIN number, to make copious withdrawals.

The scam fulfils three criteria for a successful con a) The voice of authority - it's the bank ffs b) The offer of help, which you surely don't want to reject - they are doing something of value for you c) Putting you on the back foot - you better prove you are who you say you are, they won't issue that card to just anyone y'know. So give us your PIN.

It works mostly against the retired because they can be guaranteed to be at home on a weekday, most of us would be at work of course, with a few CCTV cameras about the premises maybe.

Totheside- I commend your thoroughness and energy in confronting this problem and its perpetrators the very month your father died. But i think sometimes bereavement can give you a kind of angry energy that can move mountains. The radio 4 program You and Yours sometimes has items on scamming- maybe it's worth dropping them an email they might feature your story and this could prevent others succumbing.

I've had all this with my mum. Best thing we did was sign up for BT call protect ( I think that's what it's called ) It blocks all calls which BT recognise as dodgy, and then you can view calls received online and put ones you want to on a blocked list then it goes through to a voicemail if they choose to leave a message, they never do !! Mum now gets very few of these calls & was getting several a day , it's scandalous.