Power of Attorney Refused

[nicenewone1]

Have posted this in Dementia but this board seems busier, so hope you don't mind me duplicating it..,

Just sounding off really.....Wrote letter to mums gp asking if he thought she had the capacity to sign a lpa. He said yes, then promptly went off on long term leave. So i paid £120 for the half hour appointment needed to run through it, and the gp we saw refused to sign it. To be fair she did badly when the gp questioned her.

So it's £400 now for the deputy thing and i don't think I'm going to bother. There is no estate at all, she doesn't even have enough money to pay for her own funeral. Dh is doing his nut about that but that's probably for another thread!

Thanks for reading!

Argh what a pain. Is it worth paying £400 and potentially going to court? What were you hoping to use the PoA for?

Just to make sure her bills were paid and any decisions she couldn't make regarding her care. I don't think I'll pay £400.

Do you know if I can go to another health care professional in the hope of catching my mother on a better day, or is that now scuppered?

Ask her bank for a third party access form and get her to sign it. Then you can pay her bills should she be unwell.

Really? Wow thanks never heard of a third party access form!

This is the process as defined by Barclays.

www.barclays.co.uk/PowerofAttorney/ThirdPartyAccessTPA/P1242682490060

You will need to pick a time when your mother is likely to be in reasonably good form, perhaps morning rather than afternoon, and perhaps take a taxi or something so she arrives stress free with clarity of what she wants to do. I would tell the bank that she has recently been ill and that you need this, as getting POA will take a few months. It is her money. You just need to be able to pay her bills. If you took anything it would be stealing.

Note you get access to online banking, which I found really useful since I live some distance from my mother, and a debit card. (POA's cannot borrow!) And it is all really quick.

I also printed out a series of letters for my mum to sign so that all bills, pension information etc came c/o my address. She was moving to sheltered so I also used Royal Mail redirect. Given she then had little presence at her own address, it was important (though I can't remember why) that she stayed on the voters register at her address.

I was lucky in that my mother was well known in her branch, so when I went in they suggested it. They even let me take the forms away to get her to sign as she had just had a hip replacement and needed to be able to pay for convalescent care. In parallel we did the POA by getting the priest, who knew her well, to sign as witness, rather than a Doctor. But with third party access you probably wont need a POA.

Obviously pp advice about bank accounts is great, but it won't give you poa over health issues. HCPs have a requirement to assume capacity unless proven otherwise, and to try to a reasonable extent to cat someone at a good time / use appropriate communication aides etc, I'd take Mum when she is at her best and try again for the poa for both health and finances

When I went through this for my mum her solicitor said that we probably would never need to use the health part of the poa and she was right in that once mum had lost capacity us being next of kin was enough for us to make decisions on her behalf. No hospital or nursing home ever asked us for poa as far as I remember. Certainly not the hospital

I've never needed the Health and Welfare, but would we would both be stuck if I could not run her financial affairs.

Worth getting if you are in an ideal world, but OP does not seem to be in an ideal world, so I was suggesting a work round.

Another way would be for her mum to set up a standing order to a new account in OPs name. Pension and other income goes out, and OP then has the funds with which to pay the bills. If it is all in one account, there evidence is there should anyone question.

Totally agree it's far preferable to have full poa, but I think if op can find a work around for the financial element then the health bit Ustashi crucial

This is really helpful, thank you. DF is at the point of losing capacity, or at least being unable to demonstrate capacity. His affairs are not in order.

We asked a neighbour to sign the declaration. Fortunately it was a good day and she understood at the time. With consent they just need to understand that particular thing - i.e. so that you can help her to pay bills if she can't but all the time she can you don't need to. You aren't proving that they are entirely sane. Their neighbour was very happy to sign it for mum and dad.

I've just come across these replies, thank you very much

It's interesting that you say the health poa might not be necessary. I am reluctant to spend anymore cash though on this. My mum doesn't understand and hasn't got the money to pay even if she did. I can't really afford to pay out any more, I wasted £120 on a failed poa a couple of weeks ago.

What did the GP ask, OP? We're at the start of this, and wondering if DF would be able to demonstrate competency. He has communication issues now. We'd have to repeat questions slowly and calmly, and allow him lots of time to respond and clarify.

Hello, just seen your message. Even if your mum hasn't got much money or possessions I think it's important to still make a health and care decisions lpa.... Does she still have mental capacity in your view? You don't have to get the Gp to attest to this. You could use anyone who has known her for at least 2 years. Have a look at the definitions section on www.LPAadvice.co.uk as we used them. Their site explains everything. With the health and care lpa you will be able to carry out her wishes why it comes to certain treatments and medication, care homes etc. Even down to what she prefers to wear. I know I'd like this to be in place if it were me! Plus the cost of registering the lpa has recently gone down - it's now about £80 I think, but free if she's on benefits or a low income? Xx

We didn't need a letter from the GP, luckily my mum was having a good day when solicitor visited her in hospital.

Why did you go to the GP? I did a financial LPA for my mother a few months ago and she asked her neighbour to sign it.

If the gp has told you she lacks capacity,then I am not sure how trying to circumvent this safeguard , might be viewed , if somebody raised an allegation of financial abuse.

You can do this online- why involve your GP?
It costs £82 online - you can print off the forms and ask a witness to sign to say she understands what she is doing. This can be a friend, neighbour or anyone who has known you for 2 years.

As long as she understands the very basics, then she could sign.

YOU CANNOT APPLY FOR AN LPA TO COVER HEALTH AND CARE IF SHE HAS LOST CAPACITY ALREADY.

You can REGISTER an LPA covering finances if she HAS lost capacity - you cannot register it if she has not lost capacity.