Confabulation and memory lapse

[M1ssunderstood]

Just wondering if this is start of dementia for MIL. The memory lapses could be explained by alcohol dependency - drinks excessively every day, hides alcohol and rarely is compis mentis.

However she took it to a new level this week. Her DGS was receiving an award at school, invited her (and FIL- but he does actually have korsakoffs) and she took ticket and enthused how she wouldn't miss it.

Guess what they didn't turn up. No word until today and she phones DH to apologise, no explanation just defence. DS did say she seemed a bit too enthusiastic at the time. However I think she actually didn't take in the conversation as she was too drunk which is obviously worrying. She must have then found the ticket and thought oh !

Do we let it go or intervene? The confabulation is her making up things that didn't happen - mostly to do with the DGC- and maybe she wishes they had happened. Also rewriting history to suit. MIL has always been indifferent to DH but he thought she might make an effort for her only DGC - his DC. Also she offers money on a pay per view basis and that is probably only reason why boys still go to see her.

DH is past caring but I can only see situation getting worse as FIL is also alcohol dependent but supposedly had been rehabilitated (DH took him to GP) but MIL buys him alcohol or they go out for liquid lunches.

Bloody hell, there's a damn fine reason they haven't seen them alone for a long time! Is your DH in denial a little bit, d'you think, or is it more that his parents are making him feel guilty about not seeing the DC?

Sorry you're still going through this, I was thinking about you just the other day, wondering how you were getting on

Aaw that's encouraging and very supportive of you. Yes DH has buried his head in the sand. It's inappropriate as he wouldn't go to lunch with them as it involves watching them drink. They won't go to mcds or something as they don't serve alcohol.

I think Mil is projecting as she wonders why we don't ask her to babysit. Dh told her last week boys were being looked after by my friend. She didn't take opportunity to offer then as it involved early morning starts.
Ultimately for boys sake Dh wants Pil to see them but on our terms

It must be very difficult for your DH to accept. If his DF has drunk himself to the point of developing Korsakoff's, and his DM is going the same way (by the sounds of things), I really believe there's no helping them now. The damage is very much done.

DF won't be rational, his mental condition won't allow him to be, and the fact DM facilitates his drinking even now means it's only going to snowball. She sounds like an extremely manipulative woman with absolutely no regard for her husband's long term health, as that means she'd be minus a drinking buddy and it'd also mean she'd be forced to confront her own alcohol abuse.

Speaking as someone in recovery, you don't want these people around your DC unattended. At ALL. They're very much entrenched in their own self destruction and simply won't have the capacity to look after the DC or attend to even their most basic needs, regardless of how independent the children are.

Your DH is in a difficult situation (as are you), especially if he's had a lifetime of being manipulated and guilted by his DM. I absolutely agree that any contact must be on YOUR terms.

Rehabilitation only works if you want it to. If your FIL was already showing signs of Korsakoff's when he was in rehab/being detoxed, it must have been very easy for your MIL to coerce him into picking up the bottle again. There's another condition that's sometimes co-morbid with it - Wernicke's encephalopathy - and he may have or still have symptoms of that.

I think your DH is going to have to accept, if he hasn't already, that their health is only going to deteriorate. Have there been any symptoms like jaundice, vomiting blood, or abdominal swelling? Weight loss or hair loss? These are signs of end stage liver failure, which you probably already know. They may already have cirrhosis with no or few symptoms, and it's a condition that can escalate dramatically with no warning. What if your DC were in their care, and one of them collapsed or began vomiting blood (a frightening sight they won't forget, believe me - I know someone who lost 7 litres of blood that way, from her first bleed)?

It's so difficult. You need to stick to your guns. I'm so sorry there's not more I can do to advise, and I really don't wish to alarm you with regards to possible scenarios, but sadly they're all too common amongst alcoholics at their level.

Their situation is of their own making and results from decisions they have made in the past and continue to make.

It is perfectly understandable that your DH may be in denial, or may want to make things better. I think this is true of many of us who have had less than perfect childhoods but are now in the position of caring for our parents.

But we can't. Or maybe there are small things we can do, but often at huge cost to our own well-being and that of our families.

The keys things are:

1. decide what is possible. And don't attempt anything more. So you probably wont be able to stop them drinking, so this is a problem you simply have to park, and simply focus on ensuring they are safe.

1. set boundaries. Given the situation, you want to control contact with your children. Yes they want contact, but it needs to be supervised, at a time of day when they are at their best, and stopped if it is upsetting the children. And be as honest as you can with your DC appropriate to their ages. Their GPs love them very much but are fallible.

My guess is that your DH has a lot to work through. If he can take a step back and view the situation dispassionately things will be easier. Several people on this board have found counselling useful. Not as a sign of weakness but a way to consider issues and possible solutions with a third party.

Good luck. It sounds awful. You may not be able to do much, but this is not your fault.

One option, though it would not be popular, is for your DH to use the POA to limit their access to funds. I had to do this with DM, who has Alzheimers, as she became very vulnerable to telephone fraudsters. She hated no longer having a cheque book, arguing it was her money to spend as she wished, and effectively screamed at me for three months...but then stopped. She had her pocket money, bills were paid, food and clothes were bought and she accepted the new reality. I assume someone medical could advise on how much booze should be bought. Cold turkey would probably not be a good idea.

I assume someone medical could advise on how much booze should be bought. Cold turkey would probably not be a good idea.

This is right. At the level they appear to be drinking, and given how long they've been doing it, a medical detox using a benzodiazepine such as lorazepam would probably be the best option - controlled withdrawal by gradually tapering the amount of alcohol over a set period of time wouldn't be wise here, as it's easily abused and you can't watch over them 24/7.

This is assuming they want to stop though. Alcoholics can't be sectioned, even ones with Korsakoff's, unless they meet the standard sectioning criteria in other aspects - they aren't considered mentally ill. You can't take the decision to stop out of the person's hands, unfortunately - if it were possible, a lot of lives could be turned around.

Great posts form Beauty and NMS. I think the most important matter here is your children must not be alone with the GPs, it is a safeguarding issue. Their/ DHs hurt feelings are as nothing compared to the harm which could befall them if they were alone with two intoxicated adults. or short of physical HARM, the mental stress they could feel when grown ups behave in strange and alarming ways while under the influence.

Thanks all your posts are very insightful and it's important not to underestimate GPs are selfish and entitled and what they want they can't have as it would involve sacrifice. The boys didn't want to go to lunch alone and asked DH to go. He would not go either so he told MIL boys were busy! Forever? He will not tell her how he feels and that boys said they wouldn't know what to talk about. She then went on to say she has a present for DS - birthday soon- and that is a way to get DH to go over. I asked DH if she knew where we lived and he says it is what it is and closes down conversation.

He was moody yesterday when boys said they don't want to go to lunch as he thinks that will appease MIL. He says he is still in line for inheritance so better stay on good terms. I give up as MIL is maniputive with money and she would not grant financial POA and BIL controls purse strings. FIL occassionly remembers it's his money and objects. I think I will leave them all to it as whoever said an alcohol loves company is right and once one of them goes it might give the other one a fright

It sounds really difficult and you know it isn t going to end well, but your kids shouldn't get caught up in this. It must be very painful for DH but closing down the conversation only works so far. It seems like damage limitation, keeping the kids safe and making your boundaries around this situation clear to DH are maybe the only options you have as they are so entrenched in their alcoholism. I have seen at least 2 relatives be destroyed by alcohol and there comes a point where ones own self preservation has to kick in.

Thanks whatabout Bob. I know we have to protect our own lives. Sad thing is FIL's parents were the same and DH didn't see them from one year to the next dealing with that situation, they are doomed to repeat it. They also forgot they wanted to shield DH from that and don't see why we would want same for our dc. DH thinks his DF is a better father than his DGF but I think he means provider. Sorry about your relatives and anyone else who is going through this.

Update again for anyone who is interested. Not much contact with PIL but bumped into them in pub when I was meeting a friend. MIL was at the bar but I spoke to FIL. He didn't seem to know who I was! Didn't ask me anything, not even about boys or DH. He couldn't have been drunk as they had just arrived. MIL didn't come over so I am not sure what situation was. Told DH as usually FIL at least recognises me not this time thought possibly as it was out of context. Still very worrying.

Thanks for updating us M1ssunderstood. It is all very sad, but keep sticking to your boundaries. My father's sister died of alcoholism (he was the one who found her) after years of trying to make/ help her stop drinking he had come to a realisation (a few months previous to her dying) that he couldn't. He told me he asked God what to do about it and the answer came "just be kind". Sorry if that's a bit heavy, it's such a horrible addiction.

Thanks Bob I am sorry about your aunt. That is a very philosophical view and I suppose I am coming to that realisation. Let go let God.

Just another update in sad situation. Just back from visit to PIL and MILvery confrontational and agressive towards me. Was very drunk as been out celebrating FIL's birthday. Upshot is she spewed forth all her pent up grievances and number one was I appeared to have ignored her in the pub - see thread - and I did not treat her as a MIL should be treated. Number 2 she is finished with me - see reason Number one -and Number three we have nothing in common. I pointed out we have DH in common at which DH asked in what way had I failed to treat her like a MIL. She then brought up I had threatened to walk out of her birthday dinner - see thread again - and DH replied she had told me to f* off.

At this point I nearly walked again! And pointed out I was finished with her she didn't turn up for DGS award ceremony- again see thread! However I gave her a hug and said we all make mistakes and let's wipe slate clean. DH is not so forgiving though and we left after he pointed out a few home truths and said he is finished!.

Ironically FIL sober as a judge and telling her to shut up and she became even more agressive. We left and she wasn't frying to appease DH but trying to foist money onto boys. DH told her where to put her money and we left. No idea if she will even remember what happened as alcohol excess affecting her judgement and mental health.

That sounds really upsetting, remember you are the sane one here and her ability to judge situations, manage difficult emotions and be balanced in her assessment of people is completely impaired by the alcohol. You've been very kind but remember those boundaries and don't expect her to fundamentally change (that's my advice anyway).

Thanks it was upsetting and I know we haven't always seen eye to eye. However it was DH who I felt sorry for. These are his parents who are unable to put him and his children first as we were there as a gesture as it was a celebration. MIL's mood and demenour now unpredictable and DH also pointed out that the reason boys don't stay alone is because of the thread to pull a knife on each other - see thread. She didn't deny saying it. If if weren't true she would have defended herself. Not an ounce of self awareness or empathy about how that situation would have been frightening for dc and this was further demonstrated by the fact she was now shouting whilst dc were in the house. Very sad situation.

No, she won't have any empathy, addictions make people very selfish. Again, it's all about prioritising your kids, your and DH's physical and emotional safety. Remember this is not a situation of your own making.

Thanks I know it's not my fault but compounded by guilt that DH may have severed contact and dc won't get presents/money anymore. MIL hasn't contacted DH to apologise yet as you are correct, it's selfish and poor me woes. I feel ok as no obligation to pretend at happy families as we have reached rock bottom. I wonder if it will be MIls rock bottom too or if she only finds that in a glass.

Yet another update for anyone whose interested. Haven't heard from
MIL since the big blow up - though she has ignored me in the pub again 3 weeks ago. Anyway it's my birthday soon and just received separate cards from her and BIL - he is distant to me too. So envelopes unopened and DH says if they contain cash to send them back given what she said. However
I feel why should it be me rising to the bait? MIL obeying social convention but ignores me and hasn't apologised to DH. I have his support as DH adamant he isn't contacting MIL again as she accused him of taking money from her but will still send a card for Christmas and accept presents for the boys but not for himself. Should I just send a non commital text or be passive aggressive and return cards to senders?

Rise above it and behave with dignity. There is a lot of dysfunction going on. You are better than that.

So accept the presents and say thank you nicely. Give nice, suitable and impersonal presents on suitable occasions. Avoid engaging in whatever game playing that is going on, including between you DP and his parents. Your primary aim is to set an example of normal inter-family behaviour to your children. You can't do much about damage done in the past but you can break the cycle going forward.

Thanks, it was a gift voucher so just going to write a thank you note and post it.

DM behaved appallingly to her own mother and MIL to the extent that I, as a teenager, was quite appalled. She was also often not very nice to me.

My motivation has been to make sure DC respect me. As they are older I have been able to share more. I also insist that they visit at reasonable intervals and behave as respectful grandchildren.

Its been curiously liberating, as I am now the adult in my relationship with my mother. Oddly my mother has picked up on my confidence and polite distance, and has toned down her attempts at manipulation. It means my relationship with her is easier. It is sad. Her anger has caused her to be remote from people, like her Grandchildren. Your ILs drinking will have done the same.

I know when does the child become the parent? It looks like MIL is being nice to me but that isn't what it feels like. I will keep her at a distance and be civil. I want to model the correct behaviour for the DCs but DH is standing up to DM and she either doesn't like it, is embarrassed or doesn't care.

It will also be far more difficult for your DH as he will have a lot of baggage. From what you have posted, he has moved from denial to anger. Given there is so little you can do to change things, the hope is that he can eventually move on to "acceptance". This will lower the emotional noise surrounding everything (who ignored who in the pub, is a gift some form of game playing) and allow a degree of distance, so you can avoid being sucked in, and Bob suggested earlier, focus on being kind.

Thanks I think I am over the game playing who said what and the hurt is for DH as he is suffering. He is going to see a counsellor and hopefully it will help him to decide the way forward.