Anyone one with experience of when an elder asks to go into a care home.

[florentina1]

The background to this is that mum, 93 with Alzheimer's Has been in a lovely care home for 4 years. Her husband who is 85 is starting to feel that he can no longer cope at home. He has only one leg, various other health problems and is depressed. He has two care visits a day, and I, along with other people I employ take up the rest of his care.

He has just told me that he now wants to go into the same home as my mum. We have talked about it and he is adamant that that is what he wants..

Has anyone else had experience of this. Can he just choose to do this.

I guess if he was self funding he could, but what if he cannot meet the full bill.

Hi. Floretina I had a great grand uncle who was fully compos mentis and chose to go into a care home. He had a heart condition, was frail and could no longer manage his very large house. He had no kids, it was a sensible decision. He was fully self funding. But he had enough to keep paying the fees.

If he cannot self fund, he'll need to be referred to social services & they will assess if he meets their criteria to go into a home.

If he can't meet all the costs of the home, then you are going to be dependant on SS agreeing that he needs to be in residential care.

The first step is to get them involved, and then take it from there

Thank you for the prompt replies. He has just less than £14000 in savings and his small pension. What would they do if his money ran out which I guess it would quite quickly.

AgeUK have some really good factsheets on funding care.

But with savings of £14000 and only a small pension, if SS agree that residential care is needed, then he wouldn't have to pay anything for his care.

It is likely that if he does not own his property and has only that much in savings that SS would be asked to fund. They would expect every effort to have been made to keep him at home( up to 4 visits daily ) before they would agree to fund anything more expensive such as residential care. It would only be if he was deemed unsafe to be at home that they would consider funding care. So I guess it really depends on how much help the family are putting in to bolster the 2 care agency visits. If the amount of care you are providing plus the carers was costed out and was a more costly option that residential care they might consider it but sadly you might have to threaten to withdraw the care for them to consider it.

I feel a bit better this morning, and what I have been told on here has confirmed what I thought. Now I have another question.

I do not think that SS will assess him as needing residential care, this seems to be his choice, because of financial strain of maintaining the house and the physical problems.

The house belongs to my mum. She does not pay full cost for her care at present, but I am sure that she will be self funding once he leaves the house.

Once the house is sold I am hoping that I can use the proceeds to fund both their care. Should I just tell SS he will be fully funding to speed things along. Also what actually are the next steps, regarding meeting his needs. The home is small, less than 20 residents all with severe Alzheimer. Could they refuse to take my step dad because he has most of his mental faculties.

Unfortunately I don't think your step father would meet the criteria for the home your mums in. The best thing is to get him referred to social services & talk everything through with them. Hope you manage to get everything sorted!

Can they actually refuse to take him if he is self funding do you think?

Just a question for the experts - let's say you start out self-funding (ie sell the house and use the funds to pay), but then the money runs out, what happens then? If SS then turned round and said residential care wasn't justified... but there would be no home to go back to and no funds left... how does that work?

That is the worry isn't it. I really want to accommodate his wishes but I do not know if I can. He cannot afford to stay in the house much longer, because the running costs are £500 more a month than he has coming in which are eating rapidly into his savings. I don't even know if he would qualify for some sort sort of assisted living.

I have an appointment with the care home on Monday, then I will speak to SS. It is such a worry. He is so stressed by it all. I have had 6 phone calls from him today.

I really feel for you. Hope you get some answers from SS.

At least he is being realistic about his capabilities of looking after himself. We had the opposite problem with two of my grandparents, where they clung desperately to their own homes despite it being very clear they were no longer capable of living unassisted.

My understanding is that at that point SS may well play hard ball, accept that with savings below £23000 they have to fund, but they will call the shots as to the kind of place they pay for, and they may well insist he moves somewhere cheaper (whilst of course arguing the new place is better/ just as good for his needs).
The Alzheimers Soc forum (Talking point) has very useful posters on it who will have been through exactly this sort of situation, and know how it works. It's definitely worth checking the site out.

Do you know if they would refuse to help to move him completely. He is mentally alert and they are sure to say they are putting 'enough care' into his house at present. Will they say his desire to move is mainly for financial reasons and leave it to me to sort out?

When he came out of hospital 4 years ago I wanted him to move to somewhere more manageable but he did not want to. It was a big shock losing his leg. He was in hospital for 5 months and he came home to a house without my mum being there. He has been incredibly brave surviving this long but this last year he has been paying for other help in the house. This is unsustainable now.

I am so grateful for MN as I don't have anyone that I want to share these worries with.

Why does he want to move. As well as cost, is he lonely? Is he used to your mum doing things around the house and so finds this difficult. (My experience is that long married couples end up with clear divisions of labour so being on their own means they have to take on things they have not done for years. Indeed true of us as well. I deal with builders, DH sorts out the bin and recycling, etc.)

If you can think through the resons behind his desire to move you might be able to sort out some stuff in the short term. Local volunteer befrienders, deliveries from Cook! and a microwave etc, even a lodger if you can find someone trustworthy. Homes are expensive and it sounds as if he might be there for quite a while. One reason for whoever is funding, whether SS or family, to try to delay.

Or would the house bring in enough rental income to pay for something? A rented place in sheltered say, which is far cheaper than a home. Though I don't know what SS wil say if the house is no longer his home.

It is unlikely he can go into your mum's specialist home as the costs will be higher and part medical - SS will want to find something that meets his needs. Additionally, that would mean someone with AD wasn't getting the specialist care they needed.

Sorry that it is so hard.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I have spent the morning at the home, and they are willing to take him. Left there and was in a dilemma , as to is this the best for him.

So I get to my step fathers and tell him all the answers to the questions we agreed on, the restrictions of living there, the costs. They suggested he goes there for 2 weeks to try it out. I said that will be nice, it will be like a holiday.

"No I've been thinking about it, I am not sure I want to move. Sorry I am such a pest"

I assured him he was not a pest, talked about other options, but he was a bit emotional. So I left it.

It is still good research that you have done as one day he probably will be ready.

my father was in a home with dementia a number of years ago and it was a home which had 2 parts - one for 'normal' elderly and another, with locked doors for the elderly mentally infirm. Would you be able to find a similar place so that your mother could be in the EMI unit and your dad in the other part - but so close they could probably spend all day with each other? Hope you manage to sort it out.

Yes you are right. It is always stressful dealing with him, but at least I know that if he deteriorates mentally or physically there will be a place for him. Provided there is a bed of course.

Another good thing is that it made him evaluate some of the positives about his present circumstances. I think he thought that moving to the home would be like living in a hotel. When it was spelled out to him today, for the 20th time, the way he will be restricted, he said that it sounded like a prison.

It is not of course, it is lovely, but all the residents have no desire to leave or to go outside indendently.

Have you considered extra care housing.If your mum owns the house he may qualify for a flat in an extra care setting which he would rent. It would be a one bedroomed flat with shower room but there are carers on site 24/7 who assist as needed and the housework/laundry etc is done for you. There is communal eating which is optional but good for social contact. If he likes the idea it would be worth discussing with the local council.A social worker assessment would be needed to support a move to one though.

Florentina, I don't know if you are still checking this thread but a few things to think about eg.
Financially would it be better for him too move into a fold or assisted living type place and to rent out the house?
Has he had a benefits check to make sure he is claiming everthing he is entitled too. eg. does he get attendance allowance mobility component you can keep the mobility bit even in a residential home.

Thank you for the advice. We have been on holiday in the Outer Hebrides so no mobile contact. Came back to another crisis, but fortunately carers stepped up.

At present he has decided to stay in the house,but his speed of deteriorating is picking up slightly. He is aware of it but I think moving is too much to cope with just at the moment,

For my peace of mind I would like to know what his options are, but don't really have the strength at present to face SS with questions. Also there is the legal aspect of whether I can use my mums money for his welfare. My arse of a brother thinks not.

My Dil is sick and if I am going to be needed there, she has to be my priority.