Accusations of lying

[Marestail]

I just wondered what people made of this – possible dementia or something else?

My DDs are grown up now in their twenties. Yesterday the younger one went round to see my MIL and they were talking about my older DD’s weight. MIL mentioned DD1s weight comparing it to hers at her heaviest.
Later DD1 joined them and the subject came up again, MIL said to older DD “are you x stone? (four stone lighter than the previous mentioned weight) younger DD said “you said she was x stone earlier.”
Anyway MIL not only denied saying the weight but that they had had the conversation before, saying that DD2 was “telling lies again”. In the end DD2 backed down and said “OK I must have got it wrong.” just to keep the peace. But MIL said “you didn’t get it wrong, you lied about what I said like you always do.” At which point DD2 shouted at her and stormed out of the room.

Background, her memory has always been poor but she isn’t the key losing type at all. She has accused DD2 of lying several times recently. She also will not give in on an argument and never has done.

Thoughts anyone?

This is how my mum got in the beginning stages of dementia...

Started bitching to my dad, it was awful.

Best to explain to DDs so they know how to deal with it and not take things personally...

They can get totally self absorbed but it,s how it
is.

I got great comfort from reading the Alzheimers forum

My grandmother was like this. I remember -35 years ago- her accusing DB aged 7ish of stealing her hearing aid batteries. She had altzeimers.

It could well be dementia. One thing people do with dementia is 'make up' things to cover for their memory lapses, only they don't realise they are doing it, they fill the gap between memories with something and believe it is totally real.

So - 'I don't remember saying that' becomes 'I didn't say that' becomes 'You must have some reason for claiming that I said that' which becomes 'You're lying'

And people become less 'filtered' about being rude to other people, so even previously non-confrontational people can end up making accusations in quite a cruel way.

Things going missing is another big one - x isn't where they remember leaving it, therefore someone else has moved it, either family or friends, or someone has broken into the house to steal it.

Sorry if it is that, it's a misery for all involved.

Thanks for your replies I'll keep an eye open for any other signs.

My mum has dementia and she was doing a bit of this before she was diagnosed. Never accused anyone but if things didn't work (eg radio, microwave) it was because they were broken. She would never acknowledge that the problem could be with her.

The making stuff up is called, I believe, confabulation. Your brain invents what it thinks is the most logical scenario to fill in the gaps caused by the dementia. So, to all intents and purposes, the made up stuff is completely and absolutely real to the person concerned. I have this all the time with my mum now - she makes up the most fantastic things which are totally real to her. Sometimes they're awful things - like she's just been to my son's funeral; other times they're happy things - like her 'boyfriend' is flying in to see her later that day. There's nothing anyone can say to change what she believes. We've been told not to contradict her but to try and divert her onto another topic.

How old is MIL? Definitely sounds like dementia I'm afraid. (10 years working in EMI)

Or it could be a UTI? Can cause similar symptoms

She is 81. Doesn't seem confused at all, very active and seemingly capable.

Funnily before my DD told me about the row MIL was saying that she was worried about her mind because of leaving her keys somewhere stupid, but I dismissed it as I genuinely thought it was because her mind was on other things.

For several years before diagnosis nothing was ever my mother's fault. Instead someone else was always to blame. This caused significant problems within the family as others were inclined to believe her.

Looking back there were other signs she was losing her memory:

1. Inability to start using the internet
2. Hoarding. When in the supermarket she simply did not remember what she had in the cupboard.
3. Ceasing to cook from scratch.
4. Out of date things in the fridge.
5. Being overwhelmed by admin. Plus some pretty chaotic filing whereas previously things had been pretty neat and organised.
6. Irrational anger especially towards my dad when he was terminally ill. She was probably furious that he was leaving her.
7. Routine becoming very important to the extent she would not deviate from it. (We once got delayed by bad traffic but despite the fact we had been in the car for five hours and she had not seen her Granddaughter for months she had to head straight out as 'she always went to church on a Saturday evening. )
8. Loss of interest in maintaining friends, indeed a general loss of interest in the outside world and a turning in.
9. Some bizarre rows with tradesmen based on misunderstandings but always their fault.

Unfortunately these early stages may not show up on a memory test. However worth trying to have a conversation about memory. Aricept can delay progression of memory loss so if she is concerned it is in her interest to see the Doctor. Plus other things like an underactive thyroid can contribute to memory problems and can be treated.

Needmoresleep - so many similarities with my mum which, like you, my sister and I failed to recognise.

She had always been meticulous with admin. She's 91 in a couple of days and, until last year, would move her savings around to get the best interest rate. Often when I visited she would sit doing paperwork. However, when we had to activate the Power of Attorney and I started going through her papers it was clear that from around autumn last year she was going through the motions but her paperwork was in chaos.

She would move my things when I was visiting and then deny having done so.

Just before Christmas she asked me to get some shopping for her on my way to visit her. An hour after I arrived my sister walked in with the same shopping. Mum flatly denied having asked us to get the same things - yet why else would we?!

Another sign I think is that she seemed emotionally very flat. I assumed she was depressed having lost my dad in 2011 but with hindsight it was obviously more.

I also found more and more often I would say something and she wouldn't react at all. So I would repeat it, often louder thinking she hadn't heard me. She would snap back that there was no need to shout and she was thinking. To my shame I would get tetchy and say that, perhaps if she acknowledged I'd spoken in some non-verbal way I wouldn't repeat myself. But they were like short absences really.

As with your mum, routine was also very important, and doing the same things - even when they no longer seemed to hold any pleasure for her.

With hindsight I think she did become more critical (although she always was so I didn't notice the increase) and critical for odd reasons.

Oddly, mum did say quite often in the last year that her memory was getting bad but I didn't think much of it given her age. I don't suppose it would have made any difference though if we had realised sooner what was happening.