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Elderly parents

Power of Attorney - has anyone done this without using a solicitor?

14 replies

Tensmumym · 11/03/2014 13:07

I was asking a friend to recommend a solicitor for power of attorney and she said she knew of someone who had got POA without using a solicitor. Apparently they got the family doctor to be the independent assessor. Has anyone done this and if so could you tell me how you went about it? Thanks.

OP posts:
iseenodust · 11/03/2014 13:11

If it's about the cost, a GP will also charge you a chunky fee for the work - it's not one of their NHS roles.

Northumberlandlass · 11/03/2014 13:12

I didn't think it could be done - I have POA for Financial & Care of my parents & Aunt. But we have done it before it's needed (if that makes sense). There was a HUGE amount of paperwork to complete.

whataboutbob · 11/03/2014 22:21

Absolutely- I did. I'll admit I'm not afraid of forms and bureaucracy. The form is quite long and you cannot make the slightest mistake or they will send back. I did make one ( dad signed a day AFTER the GP- it should be on the same day, or dad signing before the GP). Also, his GP was very sympathetic and charged nothing. I went there with dad as part of dad s GP consultation and the. GP that he thought dad had capacity to grant me POA. The form was sent back to me because of the mistake, but luckily all I had to do was get the GP to sign again.
Go for it yourself if you can. You ll save yourself a good sum of money.

SwedishEdith · 11/03/2014 22:29

Yes - not me but someone I know. There's a lot of paperwork but it's certainly doable.

Needmoresleep · 11/03/2014 22:35

Yes you can. We did. The OPG are helpful and it is not that complicated.

That said my Mum's financial affairs are quite complicated and I wish I had received some advice before taking on what is a large responsibility with the possibility for criminal action should I get it wrong.

Misiecle · 12/03/2014 21:18

Absolutely you can do it yourself. Mum's doctor certified and witnessed her financial LPA and a neighbour certified and witnessed her health and welfare LPA. It's all pretty logical, if time-consuming, although I made the choices and conditions as simple as I could and put just one person on the "person to be told" list. The doctor charged £150 for the certification which, although painful, was a lot better than paying a solicitor £500+ for it. Go for it: it really helps you understand what you're taking on.

DumSpiroSpero · 12/03/2014 21:43

My mum did one for my auntie last year after she was widowed.

It was a lot more complicated than I thought it was going to be - there is one for medical stuff and one for finances but I don't know if it's prerequisite that you have to have both.

Mum did all the paperwork and form filling and I think they may have just had a solicitor check it over before filling it.

whataboutbob · 13/03/2014 07:25

Re Dum's question- you can do both, or either alone.i only have finance. It s too late to do health and welfare as Dad no longer has capacity. So far having finance has been invaluable.

Needmoresleep · 13/03/2014 11:53

I dont think you need to use a Doctor. We used a priest who knew my mother well. He came to the hospital after she broke her hip to witness her signature as we then needed to get everything in place fast.

Needs must, however in retrospect and given the complexity of my mum's affairs, I wish she had started the process earlier, something she had promised to do. I could have then discussed "what if" options with her, my brother and a specialist solicitor, and had my remit, especially on the financial side, more formally defined in the POA document.

As it is I am supposed to manage her assets actively, yet could be liable if decisions I make have a negative impact on the size of her eventual estate. For example, its all a bit tricky around gifts. I am not sure I can give a gift from her to a really good carer who has just had a baby, yet in normal life this would be obvious. Similarly at Christmas she decided completely on her own that she wanted to be generous to Grandchildren. I allowed this, yet am not sure I should have done. I really need on-going legal advice to make sure I dont step beyond my remit and commit what is then a criminal act. However this advice has to be paid for by me, and cannot be refunded by my mother. In the short term I am therefore stuck managing rented properties 150 miles away, and in the longer term, given she does not have he capacity to change the document, my only option may be to resign and hand over to the Court of Protection.

That said if assets are a residential home and a few ISAs, or less, don't bother paying a solicitor for a task that is basically form filling.

Tensmumym · 17/03/2014 22:23

Thanks so much for all your responses. Have asked for the forms to be sent. As her assets are basically house and savings it looks quite doable. Needmoresleep I noticed in the notes it said that the donor's money needs to be kept separate. Just wondered what would happen in the case of a pre-existing joint account my sister, who will be an attorney, has with my mother. Thanks again.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 18/03/2014 09:28

Once you have POA you need to be careful to keep her finances separate. Its not just relatives who might ask to see accounting. If social services or the tax authorities felt that assets were being diverted, they might well take action.

Is the joint bank account essentially your mother's money, which your sister has access to? If so this is easily sorted. Speak to the bank, and I suspect the best approach is to convert it to an account in your mother's name with a third party mandate for your sister. When the POA comes through you register this with the bank, they then cancel the third party mandate and replace it with POA access.

If it is shared money your sister will need to sort this out. The POA takes about 3 months to come through so plenty of time. A separate account should be set up in your mother's name, and any money and income streams which clearly belong to her should be transferred. The first account should then become your sister's account only.

(As long as decisions are justifiable there is advantage in having money in your sister's rather than your mother's name. On one end of the scale because of IHT, but on the other because Social Services care, which your mother will probably have to contribute to, can be limited. For example it took a while for the community physio my mother needed following a fall to gear up, and so private physio helped get her moving. Or simply money for small luxuries such as toiletries.)

The POA should be a chance to discuss how you manage things between you. A lot of the finance stuff can be done long distance, so depending on aptitude, you might have the further away sister do the finance stuff whilst the closer sister does the more hands on support. In terms of POAs the natural instinct is to share decision making. However it is much easier to have a single Attorney for the Finance side, with an alternate should anything happen. Banks prefer it. If there are a lot of assets/income you might stipulate that the accountant who does the tax returns prepare an annual statement of income and outgoings. Care and Welfare is different and you, your sister and your mother might feel more comfortable with joint decision making.

If the financial affairs are quite complex consider including wording in the POA document that allows not only for expenses to be recharged but also for a fee to be paid. It sounds mean but firstly employing a professional would be far more expensive, but also it makes it less likely that any unequal burden is resented. OPG are helpful, but if you are in this territory use a lawyer to provide advice and help set up the POA. Once capacity is lost it is very hard to change things.

Tensmumym · 19/03/2014 23:54

Thanks very much Needmoresleep for taking the time to post such a detailed response.

OP posts:
royguts · 31/03/2014 06:47

I think you have to use a solicitor. There's a very helful article on this on myageingparent.com

Tensmumym · 09/04/2014 13:32

Thanks royguts. I will have a look at this article but I don't think you do have to use a solicitor as a friend of a friend has drawn up a POA without using one. We have an appointment with the GP next week as he will be the Certificate Provider. Her priest is going to be the person notified.

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