advice please - 96 yr. old mother - long.

[oskybosky4]

my sister and I care for our DM age 96. We both live within 5 minutes of her so visit 4 to 6 times a day. There are no other carers. Ny sister and I are both in our 60s, both with illness problems of our own. I have inflammatory arthritis condition and my sister has asthma.

she has been forgetful for some time but only such as repeated asking what day it is that type of thing.

last Friday she told me there was a man under her bed. There wasn't, all the windows are locked and anyone would have to get in through two locked doors. It didn't matter how much we reassured her though the man was real to her.

Saturday my sister went on quite early, mum was half way up the path in just a nightie. She never goes out. It was lucky my sister went when she did or goodness knows how far mum would have got. she claimed she was still seeing men in the house. Sunday she was asking me when her dad was coming home and she was telling me my sister had been crying because she had seen my dad, [she wasn't and hadn't].

Mum was very frightened about these men she thinks and sees are in the house and she clearly did not believe us when we said there was no one there.

Monday, called the doctors, the nurse came who can prescribe, examined her and blood press. temp and pulse all fine. She tested a urine sample and said there were leukocytes ? and she had an infection. apparently urine tract infections can cause hallucinations. She prescribed antibiotics but did say to call if she didn't seem to be getting better.

Tuesday much better. Back to normal we thought.

Today, fine this morning, lunchtime went into meltdown with my sister, saying the man was in the house again, she couldn't live there any more, she wants to go back to the village where she grew up even though we tell her there is no one there she knows now, she has outlived them all. My sister is so upset. I am going on this afternoon and teatime.

She has never been assessed, but the nurse did ask some questions on Monday, such as do you know your address and what season is it, she didn't know either.

We don't know what to do next. We have not discussed homes or even looked at any. I did see someone at Gateway to care and got a load of leaflets a few months ago but then she seemed to get so much better we didn't do anything about it.

Can anyone advise what the next step is, is the doctor, is it social services. She needs some sort of nursing care rather than just residential as she has to take tablets, doesn't eat unless you are with her, doesn't cook or even make a drink. won't go out, although she says she will, you get everything ready, the wheelchair, car etc but then at the last minute says she doesn't feel well and won't go.

sorry to be so long winded.

It just gets better! Found mum on floor behind the door this afternoon, head on a pillow. I don't know if she fell or just lay down. She can't remember. Had to get DH to come so we could both lift her back onto a chair. She didn't seem to be in any pain only a bit cold. She had a couple of sips of water but wouldn't have anything else. The effort of trying to help us as we moved her shook her up a lot.

I managed to get her into her bed. She hasn't eaten anything today apart from a bowl of cereal.

I called at doctors on way home and asked that the nurse who came the other day to call and see her tomorrow if she can or Monday. Receptionist made the appointment and asked if mum seemed to be ok no broken bones etc. and told us to ring 111 if any major concerns at weekend.

I think she is probably in the best place in her own bed tonight anyway. My sister is going to call on her way home from work tonight just to see she is ok and if she wants anything.

oh poor mum.hope things get sorted it sounds like its time for changes to be made x

Osky I also find it upsetting that my dad, who is 79 and has AD, has forgotten my mum ( who did die 19 years ago). He also says my brother is not his son and. I suspect he has forgotten I am his daughter. And one weird thing is he has forgotten his 3 sisters, but remembers his brother quite well. He always had a very rivalrous relationship with him.

I am fuming. Sister rang at 7.20 this morning, she had found mum on the floor in the hallway. She doesn't normally go until 9 but had a funny feeling so got up and went early. We managed to get her into wheelchair and then into her chair, with some struggle. I don't think she had been on the floor long as her legs and feet were still warm.

Fast forward to 10am, sister goes to doctors who have an emergency surgery on sat. morn. Told to ring 111. She had to speak to 3 different people and explain all the details to each one. Finally a nurse told her that mum ought to see a doctor and she would arrange it for one to call. 12.50 phone call. Doctor will be there within 2 hours. 3pm no doctor. Phoned 111 again explained it all again, got put through to a nurse again. same conclusion she needs to see a doctor. mum was complaining she didn't feel well but didn't seem to have any pain or broken bones.

4pm still no doctor. mum very tired - wants to go to bed. all she has had all day is half a clemantine and a cup of bovril plus sips of water.
Her knees are bruised and she is complaining of pain in her foot when we try to get her out of the chair and into the wheelchair.

Phone 111 again. have to repeat the whole story again, we only wanted to tell them to cancel the doctor. We were putting mum to bed and were not going to wake her up as she needs sleep and rest. My sister was very restrained on the phone i would have been far more furious but she wouldn't let me ring.

Massive struggle to get mum from wheelchair onto commode. She is frightened we are going to let her fall and says she is feeling sick and wants to stay in the wheel chair all night. After several attempts and she is not helping herself at all we manage it but only after I had to get cross with her, which i now feel very guilty about.

Sorry to rant but whats the point of 111 - a 96 year old lady has 2 falls in less than 24 hours, she is on antibiotics, not eating and barely drinking and in some distress saying she feels unwell and sick. By the time it got to 4 o'clock she is saying she feels a bit better but she could also have been a lot worse as far as 111 knew.

If we had suspected broken bones or concusion then we would have dialed 999 but didn't feel this was appropriate. She was quite aware and awake when my sister found her, but just couldn't get up.

Not expecting any response to this but just needed to get it out of my system. Its driving me to the chocolate box i am so annoyed.

I am fuming. Sister rang at 7.20 this morning, she had found mum on the floor in the hallway. She doesn't normally go until 9 but had a funny feeling so got up and went early. We managed to get her into wheelchair and then into her chair, with some struggle. I don't think she had been on the floor long as her legs and feet were still warm.

Fast forward to 10am, sister goes to doctors who have an emergency surgery on sat. morn. Told to ring 111. She had to speak to 3 different people and explain all the details to each one. Finally a nurse told her that mum ought to see a doctor and she would arrange it for one to call. 12.50 phone call. Doctor will be there within 2 hours. 3pm no doctor. Phoned 111 again explained it all again, got put through to a nurse again. same conclusion she needs to see a doctor. mum was complaining she didn't feel well but didn't seem to have any pain or broken bones.

4pm still no doctor. mum very tired - wants to go to bed. all she has had all day is half a clemantine and a cup of bovril plus sips of water.
Her knees are bruised and she is complaining of pain in her foot when we try to get her out of the chair and into the wheelchair.

Phone 111 again. have to repeat the whole story again, we only wanted to tell them to cancel the doctor. We were putting mum to bed and were not going to wake her up as she needs sleep and rest. My sister was very restrained on the phone i would have been far more furious but she wouldn't let me ring.

Massive struggle to get mum from wheelchair onto commode. She is frightened we are going to let her fall and says she is feeling sick and wants to stay in the wheel chair all night. After several attempts and she is not helping herself at all we manage it but only after I had to get cross with her, which i now feel very guilty about.

Sorry to rant but whats the point of 111 - a 96 year old lady has 2 falls in less than 24 hours, she is on antibiotics, not eating and barely drinking and in some distress saying she feels unwell and sick. By the time it got to 4 o'clock she is saying she feels a bit better but she could also have been a lot worse as far as 111 knew.

If we had suspected broken bones or concusion then we would have dialed 999 but didn't feel this was appropriate. She was quite aware and awake when my sister found her, but just couldn't get up.

Not expecting any response to this but just needed to get it out of my system. Its driving me to the chocolate box i am so annoyed.

Sorry don't know how above message got on twice.

Sorry to hear that. I think your mum def needs to see the GP first thing on Monday, and you need to ask for an urgent assessment and really emphasise that your mum has fallen twice . Does she have a personal alarm? These seem really easy to get set up (though obv there is a cost)- I'm getting mum and dad sorted with one next week

I made an appointment on Friday evening for the nurse who can prescribe, I know they have a title but can't remember what it is, is coming on Monday, the same nurse who came the other day. I am going to ask for an urgent assessment. She is much weaker now than even last week at this time. Then she could get herself out of a chair and move around a little using a wheeled walking aid, now she can't get out of chair and onto commode or bed without help and although she must have walked a few steps this morning to get from bedroom to hallway she ended up falling as she did on Friday.

I am not sure she is ill enough to be in hospital but she must be dehydrated and lacking nutrition and maybe still has the urine infection as well. Both my sister and I work and can't be with her all the time and fitting in the constant visits getting her up, taking meals, putting her to bed, checking on her at night is exhausting. I know we can get outside help but mum doesn't trust anyone new so we have to be there if anyone comes to see her. She won't answer the door, she was victim of a con man a few years ago, but now she can't even get to the door.

She is frail and frightened and fed up. She did have a red button thing that she was supposed to wear round her neck a few years ago but wouldn't wear it and to be frank now she probably wouldn't remember to use it. She can't remember how to use the phone now.

Hi, I am waiting for social services to contact me, I went through Gateway to Care last week and they have supposed to have referred me to SS. Maybe if the doctors also refer her to Social services then would it be quicker. The overnight carers seems to be a good option. Mum might take some convincing though especially as she is already seeing people in the house who are not real, well real to her but no one else can see them. She would probably freak out if she had forgotton she had an overnight sitter and then saw her when she woke up. As I said in previously, she doesn't always know who me and my sister are.

We think we have found a nice home but don't know if we have to wait for the Social services assessment. She doesn't have enough money to pay the full cost herself and one weeks fees for care home are more than my sister and I earn in a week. So I presume we have to wait for social services assessment before she can go into a home.

I agree about moving her when she has fallen but we take care and if she complained strongly of pain in her arms, legs or hips then I would call for an ambulance rather than risk doing more damage or if she was really cold from being on the floor for several hours.

If she doesn't seem to be seriously hurt it would be far more distressing for her, for one thing just to get her in the car, which I think would be impossible now, and then to wait around in A & E for who knows how long. So really it would have to be an ambulance with people experienced in lifting and moving elderly people but would they come if its not an emergency or requested by the doctor.

Yes they will come if your Mum has fallen and cannot move. They would send a first responder or paramedic at first to assess the situation. If she does have to go in it would get the ball rolling more quickly on the Care Home situation. Your Mum does need a SS assessment if she needs funding. Not all care Homes take funded residents and some charge a top up fee. This has to be paid by someone other than the resident. It takes a little while for funding to come through, so maybe your Mum would be better off in hospital if she keeps falling. She maybe dehydrated now as well. So if she falls again I would get an ambulance. Then the hospital can do all sorts of blood tests etc to find out what is wrong. Our hospitals also have rehab wards in 3 or 4 different towns where patients can learn to walk again etc. So the next fall (hope there isn't one) could be a lesson in disguise.

a blessing in disguise I meant

still thinking of you and your mum op.best of luck with ss.let's hope things get going.

Emergency respite care can be arranged quickly then the longer term looked at afterwards. Phone the duty social work team for your local county council and ask for an urgent assessment/placement.

Ask the home if they take ss rates- if it's more expensive they might want a top up (separate to the client contribution and payable by family)

Sorry to hear about this. I would do what Ashtrayheart says and call the duty SW today. Explain what you have said here - she is pretty much immobile, has had to falls in the last week, doesn't have an emergency pendant as is unable to press the button or use the phone, fluid and food intake are very low (give eg of yesterday ), has had a UTI and been hallucinating and you are very concerned, that you and your sister (who have your own health conditions, tell them) feel it is now time to look at residential care urgently as you feel she is unsafe to be left alone.

We had this with Mum. She deteriorated very quickly, had a fall and a UTI and could barely walk. She went to a CH (luckily there funds in place for this) and it was amazing how quickly she picked up with care .

One night I did ring SS for advice. He wasn't very helpful but did say that some areas have a mobile night service. Unfortunately our area doesn't. SS would pay for 3 nights of carers to assess the situation. Mum thought people were knocking on her door at midnight so I had to look into the night care situation and basically there wasn't any help for nights other than the three nights. We would have had to pay ourselves and the agency I spoke to were £120 /£140 per night or something horrendous like that so weren't an option.

If you ring the SS adult services number for your area there should be a Duty SW to talk to today. First thing though today have another go at trying to get a doctor out to see her through 111 so they can check she isn't dehydrated, status of her UTI etc. If you explain it was decided yesterday she needed to be seen but due to long delay she wanted to sleep so visit cancelled then hopefully they can get someone out to her.

Hope your Mum has had a better night and you can get something put in place.

thanks everyone for continuing support. A bit quieter day today, my sister managed to get her out of bed into the wheelchair then into her armchair on her own. Mums knees are badly bruised and the side of her foot under the ankle looks even worse bruised, its nearly black whereas her knees are more red. She said it wasn't hurting as much though.

She has also eaten a little more, a bit of cereal, half a small cup of tea, half a very small budget choc ice. Shortly after the choc ice she was complaining of feeling sick even to the point of putting her finger down her throat to make herself sick, unsuccessfully. Sister brought her a small hot meal at dinner time but she only had half of a very small yorkshire pudding, and only because I cut it up into tiny pieces and fed her like a baby. I am not even sure she swallowed it. I have a feeling when my back was turned she may have spit it into her hanky. Since then she has just had a very small sherry size glass of milk.

Wandering in her mind a bit this morning, was telling me she had been to hospital this morning and a man had tried to get into her bed which she didn't like so she prayed for help and my sister turned up. I tried to explain she was probably just dreaming and my sister woke her. We had this same story 3 times plus other stories that I know aren't true.

We didn't phone 111 again today as she seemed more calmer although still saying she is poorly - the nurse is coming tomorrow. I am going to ask if she can have an emergency SS and/or NHS assessment and ask if she can have appropriate care besides just me and my sister, whether thats a hospital admission or a respite care home just until she is more settled and perhaps gets mobile enough to come home again and we can plan her long, well, rest of life care along with social services.

Us having to lift her onto the commode and in and out of the chair and bed distresses her a lot and us too as she doesn't co-operate at all which makes it more difficult. Both me and my sister are exhausted, we both have our own health issues and are pensioners ourselves though still working as well.

I have been following another thread on a similar subject and it seems that from this posters experience assements aren't always accurate and don't always reflect the needs of the person being assessed. with this in mind I am so glad I have got it all down on here and am going to keep a diary of how she is because sometimes when asked you can't always remember when she last did this, that or the other.

When our old dog stopped eating and drinking and was very slow on his feet we rang our vet and he came almost immediately as we didn't have a car then and he was shown more compassion and care than my mother has been so far - but then again we were paying.

mum now in hospital. nurse practitioner came to see her this morning and thought she may have fractured her ankle. She Called for ambulance and we were in casualty for 7 hours before a bed became free. her ankle is badly bruised but not fractured. They are going to keep her in for a few days to assess her and rehydrate her and clean out her kidneys. i didn't know it but on her notes it says she has stage 4 kidney disease.

Dr. we spoke to thinks she needs more care than we can provide and she will be seen by 0T nurse as well. i hope they can at least get her able to walk with a walker again when her foot is better.

She seemed quite calm and sleepy when we left but goodness knows if she will know where she is in the morning.

I hope she improves in hospital osky.

Thinking of you. You've done so much. Try and look after yourself too.

I am so sorry osky, but as I said in an earlier post look at this as a blessing in disguise. They will probably put your Mum on a drip to rehydrate her and flush out her kidneys. The hospital will now get SS involved and they will help you look for a suitable home. But still look round them all with no appointment. They will also explain about funding and what to do next. Take care of yourself and do keep in touch on here to let us know how things are.

Thanks pud, like you say its probably a blessing in disguise and in a way a relief because now I hope social services will get involved quicker and assess her needs. one worry i have is that they might talk to her on her own and she will say everything is alright and my sister and myself are able to take care of all her needs, thats if she even understands or hears properly what is being asked.

We both think now that she would be better in a care home where there is 24 hours care - just in case - and more people and activities so her quality of life would be better at least more interesting than just sitting in a chair in her flat on her own for a lot of the day.

Do you think the SS will talk to us and ask us what we think. my sister is very compliant and will always look on the best side of things whereas i am well aware from my own experience that you have to say what things are like on the worst day. I don't want them to think we can manage her needs on our own - my sister would say we can but i know i can't keep up the level of visits we have been having the last couple of weeks indefinitely - just to say that makes me feel as if i am a bad daughter but i know how long periods of stress affect my own health condition. i get bad flare ups of my arthritis which have resulted in 3 major joint replacements over the years.

I was coming on to say that next time she falls, call an ambulance and have her admitted to hospital. Then tell them that she is unable to go back to her own home and ask for a social services assessment. Sadly, reaching crisis point is often the quickest way to get social services involved. When they want the hospital bed back they will respond very quickly if you refuse to take your mum home.

But she is there now. That's good. Do not let them discharge her. Insist on speaking to the social worker. They will take your views into account. Tell them about all the falls, missing meals, wandering and confusion ( dementia?) state that her own home and living alone is no longer an option and that you and your sister are unable to manage because of your own health problems. Do not be fobbed off. You will need to be firm ( I have had this battle, and many others) but your mums safety and comfort is your priority now. It shouldn't have to take it to come to this to get the help you require, but it often does. Good luck.

When my Mum was being assessed SS met with both of us together and individually. And you must say how things are truthfully because you are not doing your Mum any favours if you make things out to be better than they are. SS also went through Mum's finances with me. My sister left all of the work to me because I was the one who brought Mum to live with me in a different town when she was not eating and drinking, so "therefore it was up to me" to do everything else.

From what has been happening to your Mum in the last few days surely your sister will realise that it will be best for your Mum to be in a CH. Tell your sister she is not being a bad daughter by agreeing to it. Also you will be able to have lovely visits with your Mum instead of having to do little jobs for her, or worrying that you will find her on the floor.

You are not a bad daughter either. I have been through all the gamut of feelings because I could no longer look after my Mum in my home. Guilt is the worst feeling. It never goes away but lessens over time. Take care, and keep in touch.