My mum hasn't eaten for 16 days, possibly longer.

[DowntonTrout]

I don't know what to do. It could be as long as 3 or 4 weeks since she ate anything solid but she may have had a bite of toast or a spoon of pudding. She is not drinking either and is now just refusing everything. She is dehydrated and very weak.

Mum has dementia, but was doing ok in her residential home. Then she had a fall and fractured her hip 5 weeks ago. She wasn't really eating in hospital but they discharged her anyway just over 2 weeks ago. It looks like she hasn't eaten since.

What happens now? If they take her back to hospital and put her on a drip she will be rehydrated, but for what? She is so unhappy, she says she just wants to die. I don't know how to help her, or comfort her. The staff have murmured about end stages but say it is up to us. I suppose they mean intervention, or not. There is no quality of life left but I feel asif we are just leaving her to fade away and die. She is 6 years into the Alzheimer's but it robbed us of my mum a long time ago.

Thanks hiddenhome it just seems that her GP thinks she is not at that stage yet. And she isn't really- as proved by her getting up in the middle of the night and making her way down the corridor with her frame, into someone else's room. He also did not witness what happens when she sips her drink- which I think is her body not being able to process it. It gives her so much discomfort I can see why she is refusing.

She could have subcutaneous fluids administered if she was in nursing care. We often do this to support someone who's not drinking until we try to treat any underlying problems, such as a urinary tract infection. We don't use them in the end stages because it can prolong things which is distressing for the resident and their relatives.

Sometimes, fluids can mean that someone is able to recover enough to be able to eat and drink again. It gives them a boost.

Downton, what I meant was anti anxiety medications. There are definitely some that can be prescribed to ease the panic and fear. It won't end her life but it might relax her enough to take her other meds. That's what I meant, sorry for the ambiguity how is she today? Has she eaten any more?

It's awful that he hospital lied to get her out. It really sounds like she needs to be there. If she goes back in, I would recommend contacting the hospital's social services team to inform them of the situation. They will help. Your mum had an unsafe discharge. Discharge before equipment delivery is shocking. Can you chase up the community nurses about air mattress and falls equipment? If she is not eating, she is at extremely high risk of developing pressure ulcers.

To be honest, if the manager was reluctant to take your mum back last time, it sounds as though she needs to refuse next time..

I really feel for both of you, this situation is completely unacceptable and so sad.

I don't think a residential home would be able to deliver the level of care that your mum needs tbh.

Thanks. Yes I understand now about the anti anxiety meds. She will sometimes open her mouth for the tablets- then just chews and spits them out. This is why we asked for syrup meds but she just refuses. It cannot be right to just leave her in this type of distress.

I know she has not eaten anything at all. I am going there now and will try and get somewhere with the manager. They are doing their best but unfortunately it is not good enough.

It's really hard when his happens

No, it isnt right at all.

Very best of luck today Downton.

They are waiting for the OoH doctor to see mum.

She was struggling for breath after she had a few sips of drink. It may be that she is aspirating. They have asked if we want her admitting if the doctor suggests that. The truth is I don't know.

Mum was really horrible with me today. She said that she looked after us when we were young and that she cared for her parents and didn't just dump them. She wants me to take her home. I can't do that. I had my father here before he died, I can't do it again. My house is not safe for mum anyway and I am not here enough to look after her- even with carers coming in.

I know that. But there is nothing I can say to mum to make it alright. I got upset and angry and had to leave for a bit. It is so frustrating.

Oh dear - so sorry your mum behaved like that to you. Just try to remember that she's in no state to be rational. It's the illness talking.

Re what to do if the OOH doctor suggests admitting her to hospital, how confident are you in the home being able to care for her? It seems an odd question to ask. If a doctor thinks she should be in hospital, why would you disagree? It's not as if her condition is stable. She's not eating, drinking or taking medication. And her mental state needs assessing to see if they can help with agitation and paranoia. (Thinking you were trying to poison her.)

Is there any way you can be there when the OOH doctor sees her? It would be good to have a second opinion and you obviously need some answers about her condition and prognosis. Could he phone you?

I had to check he name of the op to see if I'd written it about my mil last year. Liverpool care pathway they call it. Almost word for word what you've said, down to the fall IN hospital and breaking of the hip. They discharged her at a moments notice and insisted she was fine. We refused to collect her, said they'd have to sort out a care home place then as she was certainly not fit to go home OR to one of our houses.

She died a couple of weeks later, and I can honestly genuinely swear that its the best thing that could have happened, as your dad said, we'd shoot a dog.

My mil could have had a couple more months or even years of utter un abating misery. She didn't know who we were or who anyone was, inside her head, her memories whirled like a dishwasher on a fast spin cycle.

The Ooh dr hasn't been yet. I had to come home as have been there all afternoon.

The reason they will ask if we want her admitting is because it will mean more intervention, which may or may not work, but which will distress her further. On the other hand, if they can rehydrate her and clear up the UTI she may feel well enough to start eating again.

If we leave her in the home she will die. All they can suggest is patches for painkillers. For sure, without her other medicines she has no hope of any recovery. And even if she were to make some form of recovery he quality of life is severely depleted. After her broken hip they said she wouldn't walk again. So even though she can move about it is very slow and painful and will not improve.

Just while I was writing this they have phoned to say the Dr is sending an ambulance to take her to hospital. So it is out of my hands, which is a relief.

My heart goes out to everyone of you who has been through this and taken the time to post.

I feel ashamed to say I hope they do not make her better, as she can never get "better". I do hope they can make her more comfortable. She asked me this afternoon not to let her suffer. I can only watch while she does.

I can totally understand where you are coming from Downton, why "fix" her when she has very little quality of life left. The priority should be ensuring she is comfortable and not in distress.

Fingers crossed the hospital will make her more comfortable downton.

Oh Downton, I am so glad for you and your mum. It's truly the best place for her right now. They can do all manner of things to make her feel better.

Don't be ashamed to say what you're saying. You only want what's best for your mum. There comes a point in everyone's life where 'comfortable' is far more valuable than 'better'

Apparently an ambulance will take between 1 and 4 hours to arrive (2 mins from ambulance station, 5 mins to hospital.)

I suppose they are dealing with emergencies. I hope she doesn't just end up on a trolley in A&E all night and that they actually have a bed for her now.

Please don't feel ashamed or guilty for wanting her to be at peace. I wouldn't say that my mother was mentally capable of making a plan, but I did sometimes feel that her refusal to eat or drink was all she could do to put herself out of her misery.

Here's hoping that the hospital takes a humane and sympathetic approach to her condition.

Just caught up Downton, although its hard to put her through it, it sounds like hospital is where she needs to be and you are right in what you say, it would be cruel to prolong things.

There wasn't a day went by with my Nan that I didn't wish she would just pass away there and then when she was in so much distress and I too felt awful even thinking it, but a lot of people have been there and understand the feeling so well.

Hope she gets some rest and help in hospital. It's so so hard, I really feel for you.

Look after yourself and your family.

I can't reply properly just now, too hard to emotionally. But with you in spirit. xxxx

So sorry jumping.

On my way to the hospital now.

Downton, just wanted to send some strength and sympathy your way. X

Thinking of you, Downton. I hope that something can be done do give your mother an easy passage at the end of life.

Downtown, reading through your thread with tears in my eyes. My darling dad passed on boxing day & I still have a litlle cry everyday. He was 88 years old & in a wonderful care home 5 mins down the road from me although he gave up eating about 2 weeks before he developed a love for cans of tizer! Even on Christmas day he sat with his paper hat on & smiled at me. So I've a lot to be thankful for, although it doesnt stop me missing him dreadfully. Take care of yourself & be strong.

Downton, thinking of you and yours.

Thinking of you and your mum.