A question I hate to ask

[FlossieMae]

Sorry to have to ask this, but you lovely mumsnetters are the best people to ask, of course.
My grandmother is 99 and I don't believe she has much longer with us. Increasingly frail over the last couple of weeks; the surgery has arranged the 'hospital prevention' team (think carers and district nurses) to come in several times a day. But I haven't asked, and no one has said... what happens if there's a morning I get up and she is no longer with us? Who do I call?
I don't think I would have to call 999, or 101. Is it even a matter for the police or do I just phone the GP?
Sorry if it's a stupid question.

You ring your GP, then the undertakers. If your GP has seen your DM in the last fortnight, he can sign a certificate and then you can register the death. A good undertakers will help steer you through it all (it really is an unsung vocation). If it was longer than 14 days since a doctor saw her, the death will have to be referred to the Coroner but in these circumstances I would expect the death to be signed off without ado.

Let's hope that day is still some time off.

Just reading this and realised I would have phoned police .
Helpful to know procedure .

Might get flamed for saying this but DO NOT call 999. My mother called 999 when my father died from terminal cancer, the idiot call handler instructed her to do mouth to mouth resuscitation which was clearly totally inappropriate in the circumstances

Who do you call if the Gp is closed? 999 would be my first reaction too.

It's a very good question and one I wish more people would have the guts to ask. Do what nice viper and therein said - in this case call the GP, not 999. Does she have a DNAR order in place?

The poor call takers at the ambulance service HAVE to tell you to attempt CPR; they are completely driven by their 'protocols'. Someone not breathing = do CPR. But the ambulance service is for accidents and emergencies, the GP is there for an expected death. Even if it's the middle of the night.

If the GP is closed you call out of hours services. If you feel that it is appropriate, and that your grandmother will pass away soon you could ask the regular GP about it, and about CPR, which they can make a note on your Grandmothers record about, which should help avoid situations of being advised to do CPR.

Thank you for asking this question. I have had to do this before and unless the GP has told you otherwise you should always call the GP service OR the out of hours number. They will have a duty GP who will call out (though it may not be for a couple of hours).

You should not call 999 unless you think the death suspicious. An "expected" death is not a police matter.

Undertakers have OOH coverage, and are an excellent source of advice on practical steps and legalities.

Thanks everyone, GP first then, I'm sure there's a service called Hantsdoc which is the out of hours number should it be needed. Re DNAR and CPR, she's 99, I wouldn't attempt CPR, even if I was being told to by someone from the ambulance or out of hours service, would they really say that?

If you mention it is an 'expected death' when you ring, they will not advise anything silly. The GP OOH has a protocol to follow when an expected death is phoned in, don't worry. (I used to triage for OOH)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate it.

An 'expected death' by the way, requires that the deceased have been seen by a GP within the last six weeks OR been discharged from other care in the last six weeks. We insist MiL goes for regular check ups so hopefully we'll be fine if she does peg it.

Hopefully your GP will be able to refer you to a palliative care team... if so, they can be your first point of call as they will give you the on call number. If it does happen during the night you will not have to wait for the GP surgery to open first thing in the morning. If you do call 999 (which you can), the paramedics/police will be able to contact the undertakers for you too. All the best x

Palliative care team? What's that? GP has said there's nothing more he can do.

Palliative care is about making the person who is dying comfortable by offering drugs, practical care (e.g. nursing) as well as sometimes help for the family (mainly tea and sympathy as well as practical advice on what happens when someone dies).

May be a plan in your case :)

If you don't mind me saying there are a couple of practical things I would advise:

(1) Get a purse and put in it money for car parks in case she is taken to hospital, keep a spare phone charger at her house in case you need to charge up because you've had to call everyone.

(2) Make sure whatever is under her sheets is waterproof - people's sphincters relax when they die. It is traditional to open the windows to 'let the spirit out' in a lot of the UK (and partly that is about airing the room). However if the weather is hot do not leave the windows open.

(3) Do not watch the undertakers lay her GM out. It is not comforting to see an old lady lumped into a bag however sensitively the undertakers try to be.

(4) Think NOW about where her address book is. Will you know who to call from her friends and do you have a plan regarding funeral arrangements. It takes about two hours to arrange a funeral at the funeral directors if you have no thoughts prior to the death but I've got through one in twenty minutes because I knew in advance it was coming and we'd thought about it.

(5) Once someone has died you need to know what you have to do benefits wise: www.direct.gov.uk/en/governmentcitizensandrights/death/whattodoafteradeath/dg_10029808

(6) Do you know where her will is and if she has documents lodged with a bank or solicitor.

(7) If you are likely to have small children about you when she dies, it's best to ensure they have something sufficiently intriguing to keep them out the room.

I'm sorry you are going through this. It is a difficult time but all you can hope for is a good death for her if she's at the end of a good life.

Thanks Klaxon but she lives with me and I've had power of attorney (at her request) for 10 years. She has no one left, all of her siblings are dead, as are their spouses and whilst there are a few nieces and nephews out there, they are not close and I've never met any. When you get to her age, all your friends have gone. She's been going to a day centre for ten years, and into a home for respite for several weeks every year, I know that many of the staff will want to attend her funeral. But there really isn't any one else.
Benefits, money etc are not an issue. Neither are DC (youngest is 16).
She was taken into hospital this morning. She was completely immobile and very poorly. Unfortunately I had to deal with undertakers last year when I buried my mum.

:( Sorry to hear that FlossieMae. I hope she has a peaceful passing.

thinking of you now flossie