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Elderly parents

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Original poster

I am deliberately not namechanging. This is ugly. Or going to be. (Division of assets after my parents pass away)

79 replies

QuintessentialShadows · 09/04/2012 23:33

I dont know where to start.
I am in my parental home for Easter, back in Norway.
My sister just left.
My father is wealthy. He lives alone, is disabled, mum is in a nursing home due to dementia.

It turns out that, it seems that my sister is plotting to get this house.

I told her in Christmas that long term, me and dh would not be opposed to moving back here and taking over the house. It is old, big, ramshackle, on three floors, many rooms, very awkward, and cost a fortune in bills. But it has space for all our outdoors gear and sporting equipment, can house a large campervan next to the garage, etc. The schools nearby are nice. We are a family of 4.
My dad would be devastated if the house "left" the family.

My sister is a single parent on disability benefits with one daugther, with ME (this is relevant). My sister has scoliosis and arthritis, and currently lives in the canaries, due to the weather. This house is in the bloomin Arctic.

I have just been told that my sister approached my dad after Christmas, after I told her we were keen to move into the house in future, that she wants the house and offered to "buy" it from him cheaply.
My dad also told me that my sisters daughter let slip this summer that the house was possibly worth 400k, according to her uncle (dads brother) and that they would help her get it for herself.

Another relevant fact is that 10 years ago, my sister, who could not stand our uncle, the last few months of his life started to pay him real attention. She never bothered about him before. Whereas I would always spend time with him because I loved him, and she told me she loathed him. The result was that he left her a significant amount of money in a safe deposit box in town, kept away from his will.

She is a cunning cow that will think nothing of walking all over me.
When I was a teenager, me and her went on a holiday to nice. I got a really bad food poisoning. She bought lots of books. She wanted to go to the post office, to send the books home, to ensure her suitcase was lighter. She told me that she would help me with mine, as I was ill, if her suitcase was lighter. She said we needed to go by cab to the post office, due to me being ill. She did not need me at the post office, she spoke fluent French. I was in bed at the hotel feeling awful, and she dragged me out and into a cab. She told me I had to pay the cab journey with all the books to the post office. Because I was ill, and she would have walked unless I came with her. On the way back to the hotel, she found another bookshop. And went straight in, to buy more books, as she now had room in her suitcase. She did not help me with my suitcase, but I paid for the cab fare to the post office, and for sending her books home.
She has a good full time job. I had saved up for 6 months, and had a summer job, to pay my share of the holiday and have pocket money.

Now she seems to be plotting to get the house. I dont know what to think and what to do. I told my dad today that Maybe it is best he makes a will, and stipulate that my sister gets the house, and make it fair. Because I know he is fair, and always have wanted to be fair to the two of us. I told him I only have one sister, and I dont want any relationship to be ruined by her plotting to get the house so maybe it is better if she actually gets it.

This was actually sparked by us finding a box of needlework after my grandma in the attic. She sat back and let me chose some the tablecloths, volunteering that I have the ones she had admired the most the following day when we found them, with dad present, making a song and dance about me getting the "best ones", and eventually taking my pile of tablecloths with her to Spain, "by mistake".

I am possibly not thinking clearly, I have had wine, and I am tired. But what do I do?

It is not about the house. She can have the house. I just hate that she is plotting and making intrigue to get it, behind my back, and with dad still alive and living here, after I have told her I would be keen to have it at some point in the future, thinking she would not be able to neither look after it nor pay its upkeep. I would be happy to not have it. I just feel that again I am betrayed. And I am sad that she appears to not give a shit about me, and that greed always seem to come in the way.

OP posts:

SarahStrattonsEasterName · 09/04/2012 23:39

Ello Quint, nothing to offer but just wanted to say :( for you, and families can be an absolute mare.

EduStudent · 09/04/2012 23:40

Oh heck No idea what to say, certainly nothing helpful or constructive, hopefully someone else will be along soon.

mathanxiety · 09/04/2012 23:41

Your dad needs to make a will. Today.

Get him to talk to a lawyer or whoever does this sort of thing in Norway.
Get it done before you leave.
If necessary, stay in Norway until it is all seen to.

Sadly it is too late for your mum as she is not of sound mind.

hellymelly · 09/04/2012 23:43

Well this sort of thing is really horrible to deal with.( I saw dh's sister sneak out some laundry bags that had belonged to his Granny, when we were clearing her flat. I think she thought that we would want them and so hid them which made me really upset.) I think you are right and your Dad needs to make a will, but he really does need to be extremely fair and divide the assets properly between the two of you. Did your mother make a will before her dementia set in? Don't give up and say that she should have the house, especially if she just wants to sell it, but talk to your Father and tell him you would like to live in it- maybe it could be left to both of you but on the understanding that you live in it? I am lucky in that my own brother is very fair and I we can deal with this sort of thing easily together, but wills do break families apart, so talk about it now.

giraffesCantDonateBoneMarrow · 09/04/2012 23:44

Not sure really, but what a cow she is :(

Tranquilidade · 09/04/2012 23:44

Can sympathise Quint as I have a brother who would trample me in the rush if I was stood between him and a tenner.

I know that when my parents are both gone he will somehow get more than his fair share no matter what I do.

SophieNeveau · 09/04/2012 23:44

There is nothing you can do but protect your self from these people, cut contact with her and expect nothing. Whatever she gets will never be enough for her.

amillionyears · 09/04/2012 23:44

I am sorry you are not getting on with your sister.
If your dad is still of sound mind, why doesnt he make a will.And couldnt he give the house to both of you equally, or divide up his assets in the will equally?
Making a will is very important. I knew someone who committed suicide because he and his siblings argued for years over their dads estate, because the dad died without making a will.

KurriKurri · 09/04/2012 23:45

Quint -these situations are very distressing. IMO it is really important that our father makes a will.

And essentially the only 'fair' thing he can do is to leave the house to the two of you and either you sell it and divide the proceeds, or if one of you is keen to keep the house then she buys the other sister out based on an independent valuation.

lisaro · 09/04/2012 23:46

She has a good job and us on disability benefits?

seasalt · 09/04/2012 23:46

"parental expiration" is a terrible expression!

SundaeGirl · 09/04/2012 23:47

Does your father not have a will made before all this started?

LibrarianByDay · 09/04/2012 23:47

How does your Dad feel about this, or is he not really aware of the situation? Apart from suggesting he makes a will I have no real advice. I do feel for you though and suspect I may find myself in a similar place in years to come. :(

happyAvocado · 09/04/2012 23:47

I think it would be worth perhaps making list of family treasures and furniture and perhaps even storing them safely until will is executed.

Certain things can be catalogued - if your dad is wealthy - there are other valuables in the house, let alone jewellery...

I feel fro you, but I think if your dad makes someone who is a friend of family, yet a trustworthy person an executor both of you will be happier.

Don't leave without doing now, he is still capable of making decisions, no-one can question his will over his mental state in the future.

She may come back next week and take with her a lorry full of everything....

TheSecondComing · 09/04/2012 23:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

QuintessentialShadows · 09/04/2012 23:48

lisaro, she had a good job when I was 16. I am 40 now.
You seem to show up on all my threads with the sole purpose of picking holes in them. Please, do learn to read. Seems you only have learnt "selective reading".

OP posts:

Fillybuster · 09/04/2012 23:49

Quint :( I'm sorry, I can't help with anything constructive, but I just wanted to say that reading you post made me feel so :( for you.

You sound as though you are actually handling this really well, so far, and trying to keep a sense of perspective about what's important (family)....keep it up, but don't let your sister walk all over you again. Maybe you need to be more careful what you say to her? Is it possible she only got the idea about the house because you mentioned you were thinking about moving in?

I wonder if you could suggest that you all move in there, in a kind of happy family commune way? It would be hard for her to do anything other than say 'no thanks' if you're suggesting sharing the space?

Good luck, whatever you do :)

doctordwt · 09/04/2012 23:49

'I told him I only have one sister, and I dont want any relationship to be ruined by her plotting to get the house so maybe it is better if she actually gets it.'

Ruin what relationship?

The good one you pretend to have with this selfish scheming cow?

She's the one plotting! If it's the plotting that would ruin the relationship then the ruination is already there - do you see?

You're taking responsibility for maintaining something that doesn't exist, because your sister rode roughshod over it years ago.

Let her have the house by all means, if it makes it easier for you... but do yourself a favour and start distancing yourself from her, and when she asks why, say - 'Because when all's said and done, you're a nasty piece of work.'

oreocrumbs · 09/04/2012 23:53

Families are so complicated. Your father needs to make a will so that every one knows where they stand.

Just a suggestion that my DB and I have discussed about our DM's house - we will inherit it jointly, both of us would like to live in it and we have both agreed that when the time comes we will see where we are at (hopefully many years away), and one will live in it and pay the other rent on their intrest in the property, or buy the other out if the money is available. Whoever doesn't live in it will have first refusal to buy it back/buy out the other one.

I'm not sure how UK law stands never mind in Norway, but if your DM survives your DF will it all go to her? And if so does anyone have power of attourney (or whatever is applied) to decide where here assets go?

mathanxiety · 09/04/2012 23:53

Giving one item to two people equally is a recipe for disaster. I suspect that this sister would announce her intention to move in if that were to happen.

Ideally the distribution of assets needs to be fairly equal and the assets need to be divided. However, it doesn't necessarily have to be equal. A Norwegian lawyer would know what is acceptable in Norwegian law though.

Buying the other out seems to me to be a fair way to proceed if there are no other assets to leave to the sister. But you need to talk to a lawyer.

SundaeGirl · 09/04/2012 23:54

Start getting as much as you can in writing.

(Quint, you are a lawyer, right? )

Crocodilio · 09/04/2012 23:54

So playing devil's advocate slightly, why should she see it as any fairer that you and your family get the house instead, when you told her that might like to move back and live there one day? She could presumably label you as a grasping bitch as equally as you can her, on that basis.

CervixWithASmile · 09/04/2012 23:55

I do have sympathy for you, but, am going to be really honest. Your parents are both still alive and both you and your sister have (opposing) plans for the house. You (sorry if I've misread this) want it for free and she wants it at a knockdown price.

In reality I think the best thing to do would be encourage your dad to make a will, in the way that he sees fit, as soon as possible. Half and half would seem fairest but perhaps there are other complications. I'm not saying she's not cunning but really it's irrelevant and what your parents want to do should be the focus. This will eat you alive otherwise and potentially damage your relationship with your dad too.

NiceHamione · 09/04/2012 23:56

I may be missing something but why is it much better that you get the house? You also seem to have made plans to get the house, is that not plotting?

mathanxiety · 09/04/2012 23:57

I agree an inventory is needed here, not just of the house contents but also of any bank accounts, investments, cars etc.

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