What degree classification should a 'good enough' teacher have?

[KittyBigglesworth]

Following on from the interesting discussion about degree classifications and the importance of which university you attended, I would like to know the importance you place upon the same criteria for those teaching your children. I've noticed that, when viewing information about a school, the subject studied may be listed however the degree classification and university attended are often missing. Would you like schools to openly list more detailed degree information for teachers?

Everyone wants their child to do well, so how reassuring is it to know that the teacher got a 1st from Oxford in the subject being taught as opposed to, say, a third from an ex-polytechnic? A stereotypical extreme.

I realise it's communicating the subject in an enthusiastic and interesting way but if they can't get the grade, can your child excel in the subject?

Most nurses don't have degrees...

And you can retrain to be a doctor with a 2:2 in your first degree (obviously you have to pass your medical degree but that is simply pass or fail)

the ones that do?

you can retrain as a doctor with a 2:2 IF you pass the GAMSAT

Yes. I would want a nurse who was warm, efficient, skilled practically and part of an effective team. I wouldn't give a damn if her essay writing skills were "inferior" to mine.

plus I believe the pass mark in medicine is higher so the sae average as a 3rd would be a fail?

The GAMSAT is not that hard.

Interesting. When I went into hospital for an op I wonder if I should have asked to see the surgeon's qualifications. Or should I simply trust that the hospital has the patient's and it's own best interests at heart?

Salbysea, exactly the point though. What you get in your first degree has no bearing on how skilled you are in a profession. The people who get 2:2s is other subjects and go on to do medicine are able to pass that course and become good doctors. It would have been ridiculous to write them off as early as 21.

but I am not talking about people who once got a 3rd as a kid, I am talking about people who never did or wanted to learn to a higher level than a 3rd becoming a teacher

those who get 2:2s then get into medicine work hard to pass the GAMSAT and work hard again to pass their medicine course so at the end their highest qualification is their MD not their 2:2

I wouldn't want to be operated on by someone who only had a 2ii in health science or nursing, but being operated on by someone who ONCE had a 2ii THEN did the GAMSAT THEN did and passed medicine is different!

A teacher has to pass their PGCE year which is also pretty rigorous. GTP is even more so.

same as there is a difference in my eyes between a teacher who only has a 3rd then goes to teach, and one who has a 3rd in say, engineering, and then got a good degree in history or something THEN teaching

I've got a first from Cambridge but can't explain things even to my dh. So, would make a poor teacher.

I think that teaching is an 'art' or a 'skill'. Subject knowledge is some of it, but in no means all of it.

Oh, and my worst teachers were at Cambridge (who were presumably the best qualified and most academic), with the best ones at my sixth from college and comp.

I would not want to be nursed by someone with a degree, but by someone who had the old nursing qualifications and wants to get their hands dirty, and is bothered with their patients; SRN/SEN iirc.

As to the spelling of those teachers with GCSEs, I was 38 at the time and they were all under 30!

As for the 3rd in Engineering and then a 'good' degree in History - you want to hear my engineer dh on the subject of arty-farty mickey mouse humanities degrees! He would argue that his desmond in Electronic Engineering is worth more than my 2:i in Theology/Philosophy, and looking at the salary disparity, his MA from KCL and his Chartered Engineer status, I would find it hard to disagree.

I have GCSEs (not much choice being 29!) and my spelling and grammar is pretty much as good as you can get. (Modest emoticon). But we are all different I guess and I'm not going to hijack the thread by getting hung up on that point!

My husband is a mechanical engineer and we have the same discussion, there is a recognised disparity between when he took his degree and the gradings of the same degree now as well.

interesting you say that MrsC2010, but when I did "O" level English we had it drilled into us that you don't start a sentence with a conjunction...

But was this back in 1808?

Cheeky mare - I took my O-levels in 1982.

no scaryteacher, 1808 was in reply to BetsyBoop's mention of not starting a sentence with a conjunction. The rules are being relaxed.

I'm not quite that old

Whatever next, will people start to boldly split infinitives?

I don't have a degree of any sort, so I am not speaking from that side of the fence. However, my DC1 had 'the best teacher' in school for maths A level - First in Maths from Oxbridge,PHD, etc. Was clearly a very knowledgeable and able mathematician. But a totally crap teacher. The only pupils in his A level class who passed, were the ones who had private tutors. He never taught at any level lower than A level and as far as he was concerned, if the students didn't understand first time, they were failing. The best teacher either of DCs ever had, was one who freely admitted he got a 'poor' degree from a lowly university. But his passion and enthusiasm for his subject was so obvious and his ability to pass that on to his pupils was amazing. Consequently his subject was always massively oversubscribed at options time and he always achieved outstanding results with his GCSE classes.

As for nurses, my only experience in recent years has been when various family members were in hospital and seriously ill. Several times I have heard a nurse mutter under their breath that they ' didn't get a degree to wipe your sh!££y arse'. That is exactly the reason they did get a degree. Nursing is about caring for the sick, and sometimes some of the current crop of nurses forget that. Maybe we should go back to the days when nursing was less an academic subject and more about caring for the sick.

Absolutely BetsyBoop, and were I marking I would absolutely give myself a little green note in the margin, however given the informality of the setting I'll let myself off this once! But I will certainly slap my own wrist in penance.

claig - I forgot to add that although I wasn't born in 1808, I think the very old and scary headmaster(think standing at the front of class wafting his cane ) that drilled the rules of grammar into us at my very old fashioned primary school may well have been born around then.