If it's so offensive to suggest you don't want your children to go to school with "rough" kids, why are schools in "good" areas always oversubscribed?

[lisbey]

It seems to me that the main difference in the results a school achieves is the "quality" (sorry know that's not the right word, but can't think of another one) of their intake and the parents of those children.

However, whenever someone on here suggests that they'd prefer their kids not to mix with the sportswear clad council house kids, they are universally flamed.

Who then is fuelling the increased demand for houses close to schools that are well away from those children?

BTW I live in a private house, close to a council estate and my DCs go to a school where 40% have free school meals. I have been delighted with the school and it gets decent OFSTEAD reports, but does badly in league tables, which is why there are very few families living in the privately owned "family homes" on this estate and why they are c. 25% cheaper than a similar house in the next town.

Who then is fuelling the increased demand for houses close to schools that are well away from those children?
ANSWER-Hypocrits

OK, flame me if you must, but I'm prepared to say I do care who my kids go to school with.

I went to a school with a strong anti-learning culture, where I was able to come top in all subjects without trying too hard. It wasn't good for me, and sometimes I deliberately did badly so I didn't draw attention to myself by coming top. I didn't fit in and was very unhappy.

I don't want that for my kids.

I'm not saying I don't want them to mix with children from council estates - just that it is important that there are some children that they can relate to, and that if they are bright they need some other bright kids to compete with.

Luckily, they seem to be at primary school with some lovely kids who are probably all going to go to the same local comprehensive -It doesn't come top of the league tables (far from it) but it has been improving each year since a new headteacher started and local families have started to send their children there instead of the children being spread far and wide to different schools, so I feel optimistic that they will have a better experience of secondary than I did.

If I'm honest, I may be a little scared about secondary - teenagers can be horrible - though I'm not sure if class has anything to do with it, there are spoilt bitchy kids from all backgrounds.

to me it seems like acceptable segregation. if the 'rough' kids were of a different race would probably be illegal.

mn is highly hypocrytical when it comes to education.

I don't think it's always about council estate/'rough' kids vs 'nice' kids though is it?

For example, where we live, a very high proportion of children are new to the UK and speak English as a second language. Given that teachers are already so stretched, I'm wondering just how much time, attention and development my DD will get given as a English speaker, particularly if she is academically capable, and am looking at the private sector as a result.

nimbys

I care. Christ I live in Bristol, gangs, knives, guns, drugs are more rife is shit schools.

to me it seems like acceptable segregation. if the 'rough' kids were of a different race would probably be illegal.

As I understand it state schools are very segregated according to race, due to parents choice. I think promoting faith schools is only going to increase this and is a big mistake.

As for the OP, I do wonder myself how much of a school success comes down to its intake rather than the teaching.

Darcymum, I would disagree - where I live faith schools tend to be far more diverse in terms of race. But obv it depends on the area - if I lived in an area with a large Muslim population that would probably not be reflected in a local CofE school!

posyparker - I'm in Bristol too. Its a bit scary for secondary.

My dcs would get into Cotham, hopefully, or we may try to win the lottery buy a house in Redland Green catchment, but we have four dcs and so a five bed house in Redland is at least £700,000!!

Where are you? Have you ever made a meet?

Dh is a very good teacher who has worked in some very tough schools - would I send my dcs there? Hell no.

The previous school he was at took its intake from two very rough estates, crime and drugs rife - trying to stop that coming into the school was a daily battle - one of his 14 yr old pupils murdered another boy.

I acknowledge we are fortunate to be in a position where we could move/downsize to avoid a school like that, whilst most of the pupils at dh's school don't have that luxury.

Kids who fighjt, swear, attack teachers and woulda ctively prevent my kids elarning = rough kids and of course I would choose bot to send my boys there

Kids from council estates = not nenecesarily the above. I am quite happy for my boys to mix with any kids from any social class or background, I would prefer them not to ahve their education disrupted.

I can't tell in our school who is from private or council housing and I have no initerest in knowing. That's not the point at all.

besides, I come from a council estate and am doing an MA. I don't think people have issues relating to me becuase of that (pourme? why would they?). And I cannot understand why they would need to know either, tbh.

it is not politically correct to say that you don't want to send your kis to school with the semi-literate sportswear clad kids from the less nice areas. Probably because those kids are amongst societies least fortunate and advantaged - it looks like bullying.

however, bullying is exactly what the educated child from a 'nice' family will encounter if schooled alongside them - unless they are super confident or really good at hiding their light under a bushel.

so that's your reason. I am quite happy to say that i want DD and DS to go to school in an area with 'nicer' intake.

or if the school has good leadership

depressing thread

It's the "people like us factor". Except sometimes life throws you a curve ball - being educated and middle class doesn't guarantee you a child without SN who may actually benefit from being at a less high SATs achieving school.

Agree with sancti - IME of primary level income/housing status is not an inevitable predictor of behaviour and a school's culture.

I don't mind who my children go to school with, or even what those children are wearing. What I don't want is for them to have their education disrupted or discouraged by badly behavioured children, sadly it seems these children often come from 'bad' areas. While I have every sympathy for the causes of this disruptive behaviour I don't want my children to suffer the consequences of it.

The suggestion that immigrant children are not a 'good influence' on other children is hilarious. These children are the ones most likely to be working their arses off in order to get them and their parents out of poverty.

That's why if you look at private schools they are chocca with first/second generation immigrant children whose parents are totally unapologetic about giving their kids an 'advantage.'

Personally I prefer teaching in so called "rough" areas because the children are often much better behaved. Obviously only speaking from my experience in a small number of schools.

A lot DOES depend on the mix of a Comp.

DDs school was a "true" comprehensive that took anyone in the (wide) catchment - that covered large private estates as well as 2 council estates.

A family in DDs class was featured on "neighbours from hell" and sported the Town's first Asbo. Where to get drugs was common talk.

However, with a TEN form intake, those that want to work can rise up in smaller sets, and the teachers encouraged them all the way.

Results are well above national average. With Value added scores really high.

The last 2 ofsted ratings were Outstanding

I worked in a school in Bradford where their main problem was prostitution, the drugs were deemed not so serious.

Have to agree that certain nationalities are much better behaved, it's the large 'white' housing estates that you have to worry about.

I live near to at least 7 secondary school - mine go to a school in another LE .

libsey - some of us do what you do.

My dds go to a school that is considered 'rough' by boden mums. It also has the highest proportion of free school meals in the LEA.

What we notice, though is the intriguing way people segregate. The middleclass types with degree educations go to a different school. The aspirational types who want to be like the middleclass types choose another different school, but our 'rough' school has very poor children and quite a few children of academics/Oxbridge types. So, it's an interesting mix.

However, once inside the school, the behaviour is great and expectations high. And - because there are some difficult children - the teachers are very skilled.

Oh, and immigrant children are great for a school; they are generally the children of highly intelligent but persecuted parents. They seem to learn english within a term and then do exceptionally well.

Just because a child lives on a council estate doesn't mean that they are badly behaved.

I find it funny when the guardian reading types get nervous when their children need to go to school. They suddenly lose all their principles.

However, some people just 'innocently' like a village school; our nanny was like that. Having grown up in a town, she really wanted her children to be part of a village.

I spent some time in a village school and was determined that my children would go to a school with a greater mix of children so that they could be themselves.

civil (except for the village stuff as I live in a city) am nodding my head vigorously at your post.

Before we moved here (not that far from Bristol LOL)- nove small town / large village, decent Church school, generally MC intake the boys attended a school in bridgwater right in the middle of the housing estates and in a deprivation area. Almost entirely WC intake.

There was absolutely no behaviour difference to note; a few problem kids, (very few) and most trying their best and lovely kids.

OTOH the school IAttended in the same town was closed and reopened with a different name in an attempt to shed the stigma, and has a facebook survivor's club rather than an alumni association; also very poor WC area.

They diffences? Good headship and a clear sense of direction with dedicated teaching.

Having said all of the above, it does depend on what you live.

Our school - most disadvantaged in LA - is in a 'nice' town and there aren't huge social problems. And the disadvantaged children are only disadvantaged in that their parents don't own 50k a year.

But, this is why I find it so weird that people in our town worry so much about primary schools.

If we were in Bristol, I might think a bit differently and choose a 'nice' school.