Is it unusual to visit secondary schools before buying a house in their 'catchment' area? My oldest is 3.5 years off LEA application stage.

[pernickety]

We moved here two years ago. Our children are 4 and 7. We've been renting since we moved here and sold our old house earlier this year. Our preference would be to buy in this area, as there's a good secondary here and we'd like to stay close to the primary school my DD's attend. But, failing that, we'd move to an area 5 miles away that has a good secondary school and a better stock of houses for sale.

We do not want to have to move house again so at this stage in our lives, it makes sense to prioritise secondary schools. We would like to visit the two secondary schools, particularly the one furthest away from where we are now. The school are trying their hardest to put us off. Is this an unusual thing for a parent to request? Maybe most parents rely on local hearsay but I don't know anyone in that area.

Yes it would be unusual to visit a secondary school when your child is only 7. Most secondary schoolshave open days and visits from year 5 which is around age 10. 10 but not before then

It would be a bit unusual at that age but why not? Or if they are putting you off (given they probably have lots of older ones wanting to look round), go round on their open eves, probably coming up early next term, and also their open mornings when you can look round the school with the pupils in lessons. You don't have to take dcs with you on the open morning if you think it might look odd. There are some parents that go round two years running at least.

But how are you supposed to choose where to buy a house in a new area?

By Year 5, in these areas, it is pointless viewing the school and pretending that one has a choice of schools.

Ah yes, I should check to see if they have early Autumn open mornings. We're getting rather desperate to have a home again though and need to make a decision soon.

IME it's the head that makes the school. It'll be difficult to tell if the head will still be there in the years to come, I'd be very careful of this plan as the school may not be as good if there's a different headteacher.

IME secondary schools don't seem as open to ad hoc parental visits as primary schools do.

They usually have open evenings for Y6 pupils in the autumn term which you may be able to sneak into - I say sneak into as the massively over subscribed school nearby issues invitations via primary schools to Y6 parents only.

Oh god. Invitations! I hate having entered this territory already. I wish I didn't have to be thinking about secondary schools.

You can tell alot about a secondary school by the behaviour of the children on their way home. If they are swearing/smoking and violent then you know you're onto a bad thing

You really can't judge a Secondary school 4 years in advance. A school could turn over half its staff in that time.

pernikety - ask on here if people have opinions about a school. You know you'll get warts and all

Having said that, my ds's bog-standard comp which is usually 3rd or 4th choice for parents round here traditonally, has just been awarded an outstanding ofsted report - cue loads of very pissed off parents of 9 and 10 year olds who have just increased their mortgages by 200k, become best friends with Jesus, or spent over £1000 a month renting in the 'right' area

things can and do change!

Our experience is that state Secondary Schools do not make it easy to visit. Open days only seem to be publicised to primaries within the catchment. However most strange was when I contacted the Head of the school my daughter had been allocated (not on our preference list)to see if she could visit. We were told she would be invited to a Open Day at the end of the summer term, eg about 2 months before she was due to start, but no provision could be made for her or I to see the school before then.

This made the decision to go private easy. (Aside from having to pay for it.) I cannot see why a school would expect children and/or parents not to be interested in where they were going to be spending the next 7 years. The same schools then seem the first to complain about parents not turning up for parents evenings. About a month or so later I received a phone call asking why we had not confirmed our acceptance of the place. The person was new to the school but said they agreed that allowing parents to see the school might help build parental support and this good idea would be considered for the following year. I assume they would fall over backwards if someone asked to look round 2 or 3 years in advance.

And it was an all-girls CofE school, not a sink comprehensive.

I think that the super-selectives are more open and let Y6 parents in for an evening. Though the focus is often on how difficult it will be to get in!

In our county, the dates for the open evenings are listed in the guidance for secondary transfer booklets that are distributed to Year 6 early in the Autumn Term. However, that's far too late for decision-making for most people for a Year 6 child. Most Year 5 parents get to hear of the dates and go along, although our (primary) school has been asked to discourage the practice as the events are massively over-crowded. I'm not aware that they vet people on the door for invitations, however.
We went along when DS was in Year 3, for precisely the reasons you've stated: we were about to move and wanted to be sure to aim for the "right" area. We were lost in the crowd, though. Didn't really need to go in Year 6, although we did, and again for DD, even though she was a shoo-in as a sibling. She wanted to do as her friends were doing. As I said, these events are busy!
Not sure I could have swung a one-off visit in an open-morning, though. You're a bit more visible then.

Buying a house is a big expense - so I see your point. I doubt a good school would change dramatically in 4 years. (Good schools attract good heads and teachers).

For the closer school do you know anyone with slightly older dc's whose is planning a visit (you might be able to tag on)? Otherwise any opportunity to get inside. School plays? Fetes? Schools nowadays are often open to the community outside school hours. Check the website. It's not the same a school tour - but it'll give you some idea.

isn't their ofsted report available online? may be owrht having a good reconoiter of their site.

I really don't think secondary school teachers should be spending their time showing parents of 7yos around their school, nor that parents should expect them to.

Gatecrashing an open evening would be OK, although I think it would be a bit pointless, considering how much schools can change in a short period.

It's been my experience that by and large, poor schools may improve in a set period but good schools pretty much remain so.

Sometimes in life you have to take a punt, and you take it based on the facts you know there and then.

If I were in your position, I'd be 'sneaking in' via open evenings etc to get a look but I'd probably be buying the house in catchment now.

I also wouldn't judge a school by its willingness to let parents come in as and when they please- one school we considered for DS1 seemed great in that there was heaps of opportunity to go in and poke around BUT as a parent of a DC already there said the DCs lessons are constantly being disturbed by these visits!

The schools around here will all allow visits outside the usual round. DCs has a tour once a week if there is any interest. One will arrange a tour pretty much any time if you phone and ask. The other used to be very fussy, but now allows tours outside the autumn rush. I always advise parents to look in year 5 at the latest. No one issues invitations, anyone can turn up (the private schools do like you to register though). At least one local school positively encourages you to visit anytime, but getting in there involves a serious religious conversion, moving and sending your kids to the right primary schools.

It has been considered a good school for a long time, so I doubt it would change drastically in the next 3 years when we will be making applications.

I can and have accessed Ofsted reports and the school website but a look around inside whilst pupils and teachers are present offers a different viewpoint of the school.

I can see the other point of view - that it would not be the best use of time of the staff to constantly be showing parents around ad hoc. I don't think I would expect it if I had lived here a long time and built up more local knowledge i.e. knowing people whose children attend these schools.

All of this is aside now as I have just had a phonecall from the school's deputy head offering us a visit and I am very appreciative.

I was thinking ahead like this with regard to primary schools and people I knew thought we were barking/comical to worry about schools when our first had just been born. Like you though, we didn't want to move again for a long time.

As it happened the people that thought we were barking were tearing their hair out 4 years later when their children had been allocated rubbish schools. I'd do it and go to open evenings etc. Also try to speak to parents of both schools.

Thank you. We did get to visit the school and the staff were lovely to us. I made a big point of saying how appreciative we were.