What do you think is important when choosing secondary schools?

[jenroy29]

Ds is coming to the end of year 5 and we are being invited to open days at the local secondary schools. I basically have three to choose between: They all seem to be pretty equal on exam results. One has a lot more children than the others and is a brand new building so probably has the best facilities. One is a specialist sports academy ( I don't really know what that means and neither of my dcs are sporty). And the other one has nothing special worth mentioning.
Their primary school doesn't feed into any particular school otherwise I would just (sheeplike) follow their friends parents.
But I really don't know what to be looking for or what questions to ask of the schools.
Both dcs are very academically able and I want them to be encouraged and challenged but I've heard of some kids doing 17 GCSE's and part of me thinks that some of them are "mickey mouse" qualifications and put unnecessary presure on the kids.
I don't want to choose the wrong school and stuff up their futures.
Help please

It's a combination of data from the schools and your own feeling about the school from a visit

Your LEA should have a handbook/directory of all schools for secondary entry - look v carefully to see if any are woefully under-subscribed. That can be an indication of a failing school (round here anyway)

Facilities, atmosphere, 'vibe' - very personal, what suits you and dc's best

Academic results - not be-all and end-all though I found that when the crunch came in the end dh and I did go for track record in more traditional subjects. The school should provide (and if they don't, then request it) details of all GCSE and A level results, and details of current GCSE selection eg a sports college may well require all pupils to take PE GCSE. Our local comp is lovely and appears to have rapidly improving results BUT on closer inspection the results for core subjects not good, and the supposed improved results are high scores on lots of 'mickey mouse' subjects.

I would want to know whether the school "sets" pupils according to ability and, if so, in what subjects and from what year. Personally, I think early setting is definitely a good thing. Otherwise, more able children don't progress as fast as they could due to the teacher having to teach to the middle of the class. Equally, less able ones get forced to move on at what is too fast a pace for them, meaning that they get demoralised and lose interest.

Does each school have a sixth form? If so, I would look quite specifically at A-level results as well as GCSE results, and also at the range of subjects offered at A-level.

I would also ask any parents you know who already have children at these schools about whether their children are happy at the school and what they see as the school's strenths/weaknesses.

As your dc's are academically able - you might also want to look at university success rates - both where pupils go and (if you can find out) how they do. A good school for academically able pupils should prepare them for uni (even if they choose not to go in the end).

as a teacher I would recommend looking at their CVA data (how they perform in relation to what they are expected to do based on previous assessments)
Then I would look around the school, is there graffiti etc that would indicate the discipline within the school.

If your child has SEN what provision would they have?

most of all get a 'feel' for the school, is it welcoming, do the teachers seem happy and relaxed?

Look at the kids when you go round - could you imagine your DS fitting in there? Look at the work up on the walls, and the noticeboards for evidence of a variety of interesting extra-curricular activities going on. Also don't ignore the practicalities - could he easily get himself to school and home again?

Go and see them. See which ones you like the feel of- and take your son too so he can give his views. Apply to the ones you like best and remember also to be aware of entrance criteria/oversubsciption etc. You may have less choice than you imagine, unfortuately, and it's important to be realistic. Putting a school down that you have no chance of geting into is a wasted choice. Can you ask other parents which schools they are considering, if your usual strategy is sheeplike following!? Going up to secondary with a few mates is rarely a bad thing, after all.

I'd agree on the vibe and general school attitude and how it fits your family ethos.

I also think travelling time is important, I scared myself by working out that if I went for a school about 20mins further away then over the course of 5 years my ds would spend equal to nearly 100 school days on just travelling.

That's a good point about looking at which GCSEs are compulsory (we also have one which specializes in sport - may have to scratch that option for non-sporty ds!)

Try to speak to the head or another senior teacher and ask them the awkward questions about bullying, attainment, drugs. You don't need perfect answers but you probably want to send your DS to a school where they acknowledge any problems and have strategies for dealing with them. Other ideas here.

Thanks everyone, all really useful advice I'm going to write a little list to remind me what to look for then keep notes. I'm quite lucky that I know a lot of dcs friends parents and I'm comfortable asking them what they think of the schools.
I'd already decided to visit the schools on normal school days as I'm aware that for open days there is a certain amount of "staging".
Gosh I've just realised this is like buying a house.
My only worry now is if ds wants one school and we want a different one!

We had that - dd wanted one school and we wanted another one. She wanted the one 'all' her friends were going to. Destination of friends wasn't a consideration for us.

We explained our reasons for choosing the school we did. Also, talked a lot about how she would make new friends in secondary.

After we sent in the school choice form, she was grumpy about it. Now, in her last few weeks of primary, she is super-excited about the new school. Also, one of her friends is going to the same school and they are making plans to walk to school together on the first day

Aw bless, glad it's turned out well for her.
Good on you for telling the truth, I would have lied and said that her choice was full and the LEA are making her go to other one.
There's a bit of me still thinking "what's the point in looking and choosing, when it does seem to be a lottery round here?"
But no it is really important, my primary fed into the secondary school (catholic and crap didn't even do GCSE for RE we got certificates from the Bishop) so that was easy for my parents and all my friends were there but I don't have fond memories of it at all. That's probably why I'm stressing a bit over the decisions.

I think what makes the whole process so stressful is that you don't have control over it. You don't really get to choose, you just express a preference. The schools choose.

My advice is visit all the school your Dc could possibly go to, even the onces that your friends are not recommending. The first school we visited was the one "everyone whose anyone goes to" and it left me, Dh and DD totally cold.

I think it is quite important to take you Dc to the visits with you as well even you ae going to be the one making the decision in the end.

Is it the schools that choose which kids the accept or the LEA that allocates where the kids go? If it's the former that explains a cryptic thing that their current head said to me.

Good discipline, anti-bullying policy that is adhered to. I think a school with a strict uniform policy is a good thing as I reckon they're less likely to be lax in other areas. DD will go to a school where they have to waer a blazer rather than one where they're all in polo shirts and trainers.

Is your DS a confident, outgoing kid who will be fine in a big school or would he prefer a smaller school?

How enthusiastic do the teachers, especially the headteacher seem? How well behaved do the kids seem on an ordinary day at the end of school when they're walking home. Are they generally behaving or running all over the place, smacking each other round the heads with bags and smoking fags?

Oh you've just opened another can of worms because ds is in yr5 and dd is in yr4 and they have totally different personalities. He is confident and easily makes friends but all her friends seem to emigrate (that isn't an exageration).
I would prefer them to go to the same school but what if I find that they would be better off in different schools, we don't really do the single sex thing round here so I think that it would be unusual for siblings to go to different schools.

"If at all possible, try to get shown round by pupils" You are right. This is one of the things that did swing us towards a particular school.
School1 , shown arround by a less than enthousiatic teacher.
school 2 (apparently less popular when I asked friends) shown arround by very articulate pupil who seemed to really like the school. It made a big difference.

I think in that case then I'd choose the school best suited to your DD. sOUNDS LIKE YOUR ds MAy thrive in any school but your DD may be better with a school that suits her.

It's the schools that choose which kids to accept, but they have to do it according to their published criteria.

For a normal community school, they are 1. Kids with SEN who have a statement nameing the school; 2. Kids with a sibling already at the school; 3. Kids in care; 4. Kids who have 'an exceptional social need' to go to that school; 5. All others, with priority given to those living closest to the school.

Religious schools and academies may have additonal or different criteria.

What did the head say that was so cryptic?

Yes Sparks, ultimately the shool chooses who they accept but as you are allowed only 3 choices of shool possibly accepting you, narrowing it down to the 3 ones that attract you the most is helpful. If I had put down my 3 most local schools without visiting them I could have had the very bad surprise of DD ending in the one I am now quite positive she would not have been happy in.

My kids primary head said "you won't have a problem getting them into the school you pick" he said it to me in a hushed voice, like he had influence.
Before I read Sparks I thought my boy would be snapped up because he (I'm not being big headed) will achieve good results for the school.
But my kids don't fullfil any of the citeria that Sparks has listed.

My DCs head master has a strong preference for one school, which I as a parent don't like as much as another. Factors that hae influenced me second time round include library opening hours. It is useful if they can go to the library before and after school (if only to do homework).

If you take your DC, see if they can use the toilets. A big barometer of a school is the toilets. One local secondary school here does a year 5 taster day, and they all came back talking about the toilets. (BTW any school wanting to improve its intake, should improve the toilets as a priority).