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PYP programme experiences?

11 replies

fireupthequattro · 21/05/2010 12:33

Hi

I'd be interested in peeps telling me the pro's and con's of the PYP system as compared to the UK primary. Have a choice of both but have no experience of the former?

Feedback please lovely people!

OP posts:
fireupthequattro · 21/05/2010 12:55

anyone, yoooohooooo!

OP posts:
frakkit · 23/05/2010 19:06

Okay...bear in mind that everything I say is entirely based on my own experience.

IMO pure PYP doesn't necessarily work that well, especially if your DC are ever likely to move into an NC system. It encourages a lot of independent thought and cross curricular links but can be too child-directed, at the expense of important skills without a good scheme of work.

It needs strong, rounded teachers, with an excellent communication framework, a commitment to long-term planning and very good evaluative skills. It relies very much on each individual teacher's skills set and experience and it's easy for teachers to duck out of teaching things they don't like/aren't confident in. I've seen it done terribly and I've seen it done well, but overall I would say the doing well is the exception than the norm. On balance I would prefer a NC framework at primary level.

Another problem/advantage with IB is the different expectations/training that staff have. You get input from a wide range of cultures and learning approaches, which is great, but there's very little consistent levelling/expectation of acheivement as each teacher will expect the level children in their country attain.

I like the units of enquiry and the holistic approach - focusing on the whole child rather than very specific skills - and it can work well. Which schools are you considering? How experienced is the PYP school at delivering the programme? Where do they draw their teachers from?

I've copied some stuff I've said on another thread:

IF WE ROLLED IN IB FROM PRIMARY UP
"I don't agree with PYP because of the lack of structure and content. I can see why you can't prescribe content throughout the world, and it may just have been the schools I've worked with and the way they delivered it, but the children didn't really seem to learn anything concrete. There was a lot of play and not much learning and I was looking after 2 children learning the same topic at the same time, with scant differentiation between them. They come out with interesting facts but not sufficient to build a foundation for future learning and the 9 year old who had been at the school from the very beginning struggled with basic maths concepts because they'd just missed out teaching them and the next year's teacher assumed they'd covered it. The whole class spend the second part of the first term learning stuff they should have covered lower down the school and that's a major flaw IMO. The teachers seemed to have too much control over what they wanted to teach and for it to work successfully you need a very international mix, not only of children as Bonsoir says, but of staff as well. The idea that the children lead isn't quite correct - the teacher still has control of the curriculum - but a good teacher has the freedom, under the PYP programme, to do what you said. Most don't.

Native language teachers isn't a fixture of the PYP, in fact plenty of schools do it, including one independent primary and the independent secondary I went to. It's more a benefit of being in an international environment and having access to them.

The primary NC is about to see major changes as a result of the Rose report and a move away from the overly strucutred and levelled system we have to something where teachers have more control over what is taught and how which is, I think, working towards the ideal. I do recommend you read the Rose report if you're interested in primary education because it's very accessible and recommends that we encourage more of the qualities you mentioned in your OP in the classroom. Cross-disciplinary learning is also a key feature of that and there is already a shift, in certain primaries, away from a subject centred approach (now we will do maths, now we will do history, now we will do science) to a topic centred approach and picking a topic such as the Egyptians and incorporating maths, science, history, art, language, geography etc which is one of the good things about a corrently implemented PYP.

MYP is good (but it doesn't give sufficient preparation for formal assessment IMO) and the IB diploma programme is excellent, although the levelling you refer to does still exist in that system (diploma). You have to tick all the boxes to move from 1 to 2 to 3 and so on up to 7.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the philosophy behind PYP is good, the intentions are there, the multi-disciplinary learning approach is beneficial but what it actually lacks is.....a curriculum. You can lay the principles onto a curriuclum and it will be fantastic but you couldn't abolish the NC and say 'this is how we will now learn' because the PYP is a 'how' and not a 'what' and when it falls down it really falls down on the 'what'. "

RollaCoasta · 23/05/2010 23:17

I agree with Frakkit on many of the points above. Teachers met PYP at our school on many different levels - some totally embracing it and others still fitting Greek myths to its framework (?!)

I liked the PYP questions - they were thought provoking, but specific training would have been necessary to implement it correctly. Those of us who took the idea of starting a topic with questions are now much more confident to using child-led curriculum (although our questions aren't quite as cerebral!!)

We found the Northern Ireland strategies for delivering the curriculum for infants (especially) was great. It has a child-led approach, although the teacher picks up the children's suggestions and then plans accordingly, covering all objectives. In KS1 we love our topic wall that is an interactive display of things we're learning about, from home or school.

We have decided to use a central theme (book, movie, art work) to elicit ideas from the children. Our planning using the Rose curriculum will follow from this, ensuring all objectives are met throughout the key stage.

fireupthequattro · 24/05/2010 11:58

Thanks for your feedback guys, perhaps I should have elaborated more - we don't really have a choice PYP verus NC, or we would be NC. We are moving DS to Switzerland, and, as we will only be there for a few years need a transferable education for him. Therefore Swiss school is kind of out of the question, as it's likely we'll be moving onto Dubai.

I have two International schools to look at, so I guess I'm kind of looking at pointers when we go and visit next week?

When I chose DS's current school, I looked a lot at Ofsted's, results etc as well as getting a feel for the school. I'm not sure what I'm meant to be looking for PYP/International wise.

Any pertinent questions you think I should be seeking out? The schools seem to run PYP alongside the Swiss curriculum (in English) with German lessons from the age of 6.

DS would be going into Kindergarten on entry which kind of worries me as he will be leaving reception in July and is reading at 7-8 yo level. This is in no way advanced I know, but I don't want him to go backwards, he's come on leaps and bounds and I don't want him to be understimulated as he can be a lazy beggar!

Plus I am piling on the guilt as I will be working full time following the move after 2 years as a SAHM and won't have as much time to sit and read books, word lists, caterpillars etc as we have enjoyed together so far. I feel like I am leaving him more in the lurch!!

OP posts:
frakkit · 24/05/2010 12:22

Ask to seem schemes of work, attaintment levels for each year, how the school implements the PYP philosophy, what their educational philosophy is, where the teachers come from, who designs the curriculum, what qualifications the teachers have, whether they've all received IBO training, what the schools IBO status is and what the typical 'family profile' at the school is. Are they local or expat families? 2 working parents or mostly 1 WOHP/1 SAHP? How much parental involvement is required/expected?

I would also look at the physical environment, number of students per class (and teaching ratios) and the % of EAL children, the experience staff have of dealing with classes of mixed language ability and whether the school has an English only policy (except in German lessons obv). It's important to find out at what stage they introduce formal literacy (I would say if your DS is already reading he won't be pushed on this front for a good 2 years).

Be prepared to keep tabs on what he has and hasn't done, especially when you move. ISs are very used to children coming in and having to catch them up on some things but in the primary years it's easy to miss out on some pretty fundamental skills that 'should' have been taught by another school.

That said I would go against the grain and say a Swiss school isn't out of the question. ISs in Dubai are likely to take children coming from all kinds of NCs and in primary it's not so much of an issue. At secondary level continuity of education becomes important and I do believe you should pick a framework and stick to it. Perhaps a Swiss school and a different language will give your DS the stimulation he needs?

If you CAT me the schools you're considering (or post them here) I'll do some nosing on them - I may know people who work there, or people who know people who work there.

fireupthequattro · 24/05/2010 13:30

frakkit, I want to take you with us next week

Thanks for your help. Can't CAT, but the schools of interest are:

www.is-so.ch/

www.isberne.ch/

We are also going to see a Brit school,
www.britishschool.ch/
however I am then faced with possible commute of 1 hour to this and the other Berne one, when I am desperately trying to avoid the long hours I did before I became SAHM!

Solothurn would give a better life balance, I could be home in 15 mins to spend the eveing with DS, but when was life ever that easy!!

OP posts:
frakkit · 24/05/2010 14:10

First nosings indicate Solothurn isn't actually an IB World school for PYP (at least it's not listed here - it dances round this with 'according to IBO standards in the PYP' and may actually offer the IB diploma but this means teachers are unlikely (not certain) to have IBO training in delivering the PYP. That also means you won't have any 'priority' going from one International School to another if you move so other than the language of instruction it doesn't seem to carry any advantages over a Swiss school. IS Berne is definitely an IBO school for PYP.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean I wouldn't take anything for granted in the same way I wouldn't for a prep school in England that wasn't part of the Ind. Schools Council or similar. In fact they have an advantage of the 'pure' IS Berne approach as they follow the Swiss curriculum.

I don't think I know anyone at Solothurn or the British School or who has/had children at/went there themselves. I have a vague recollection of someone talking about taking a job in Berne though if you want me to find out more about that school? But probably better to see them before being swayed by other people's opinions!

fireupthequattro · 24/05/2010 15:47

So essentially IS-SO, seems to come across as an English speaking Swiss run school? I don't think that phases me too much, as most of the schools have a v good rep. (Teachers are very well paid and highly regarded - or so we hear from our friends in another Canton).

They also run a bilingual school so we have decided to have a look at that.

I have noted down your PYP questions so at least feel a little more armed.

The info we got from Berne Int was more detailed it actually had curriculum detail built around the pyp structure chart which we found really helpful, so I'll be asking Solothurn for evidence of this.

Does it take time to reach IBO status? Just that the Solothurn school has only been open 1-2 years I believe, and I wasn't sure if this was a factor?

OP posts:
frakkit · 24/05/2010 18:11

It does take time (and lots of cash!). If they're working towards it that's a really positive sign, they have to do everything very thoroughly.

lots of info

If you need any more help/clarification just yell

fireupthequattro · 25/05/2010 08:26

Thanks so much, will report back after visits lol

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tina2000 · 14/08/2017 11:23

Quick question. Does POP have a end of primary year exam like Cambridge primary checkpoint?

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