combined class y1/y2

[dappy]

My sons school has proposed (for one year only - my son's year) to combine one class of year 1 & yr 2 due to not having enough classrooms in Sept 2010 to accomodate the 72 children progressing to y2. This would be for one year only as they will be building a new classroom for Sept 2011 y2s. Naturally I am opposed to this as if my son is one of those 'selected' I believe it will be detrimental to his education & subsequent transition to the Juniors (Y3) I am looking for any opinions/ proof that it works or doesn't work, as a few of us mum's feel that we have to enter the debate 'informed'. My son is currently in Y1 & doing very well.

Um, well you be happy if I tell you that in many schools it works very well to have mixed year groups? Or will you dismiss any evidence that disagrees as your premise out of hand?

We have 1/2 mixed age classes-indeed all our classes are mixed age-and the children do as well as any other. Why do you feel it would be detrimental?

only because they have never done it before, it is not for the whole school & it will only be a temporary measure for Sept 2010 y2s. It seems to us that the proposal is financial only as we have asked for a temp portacabin classroom until the new one is built but this request has been rejected. Y2 is a very important year & to 'select' a number of children to 'stay' back & be put in with a lower year group for their final year at infants can be good for them. How do you select? explain to their parents? split the curriculum for 1 year. I am happy to receive all points/opinions but in reality can't see that I would be happy if my child was in that class. If they had done it from the start no problem - I know it works in other schools but don't experiment with my child for a short term answer - they need to find a classroom space.

I meant to say CAN'T be good for them.

It is common to have to form composite classes and in my experience there are no disadvantages at all. Teachers have to differentiate for the range of abilities in class all the time.

Our primary school did mixed year groups and I was initially very sceptical but as my dc went through I warmed to the idea. The bright Y1s worked with Y2s and the ones in Y2 who needed a bit of extra time for embedding skills worked with the Y1s. The younger Y1 kids who weren't quite ready for the NC actually spent the first term following and early years curriculum. ds 1 was one of the bright ones working with his older peers every other year and ds3 was one of the ones selected to do the early years curriculum for an extra term. he finished Y6 this time last year with level 5s across the board.

You are right to be wary though, my advice would be to keep an eye on how your child is doing and speak to school if you notice a dip. There are plenty of age appropriate workbooks with fun activities that you could get from WHSmith et al to see if your son is staying on track whatever level that is.

Thanks I know about the workbooks as he does them a lot as he classes this as his 'homework' when we sit his older b down to do his homework. This is why I'm wary he loves to learn but gets bored easily if he repeats something & in his mind is a waste of time as he has done it already. He is a bright child & needs constant stimulation/ challenges I'm scared that he won't receive this & then become disruptive as he may be quicker than his peers. His teacher is good with him now & gives him extra spellings etc which works when she only has one year group to teach but these teachers haven't taught mixed classes before I'm worried they won't cope & will only 'go as fast' as the slowest child! Will THEY undergo the specialist training for such a short period of time.

But if he is in a sole year 2 class and "quicker than his peers" do you think he will become disruptive? if his teacher can provide him with extra spellings and work now, why would they not be able to do the same next year? Why would he have to repeat something? Why would a teacher not be able to cope with a mixed age class, teachers do it all the time and we don't get any specialist training for it! The children aren't staying back, they are moving into Yr 2,just with some yr 1's too! I teach Yr 5/6 The range of abilities in my class is from 1A to 5b in my yr 5's and from 2B to 4A in my yr 6's, so the range is no more having both year groups together than it would be if I had a straight yr 5 class.

I think yr 2's in a 1/2 class are in an ideal position to take on the role of class expert, to develop responsibility and leadership and become role models for the younger children, all skills they will need to make the most of yr 3 and onward.

Dappy, I'm sitting here wondering how on earth to organise work for my class for tomorrow. I'm relatively new to the game, after only 24 years.
Have you got any tips in helping me to cope?

"I'm worried they won't cope & will only 'go as fast' as the slowest child!"

Jeez, how do we muddle through the day....

My dd and ds have both been in mixed Y1/Y2 classes. The teachers have been skilled enough to teach each child as individuals so which year group they were in was not an issue.

Sometimes the Y2s do different work to the Y1s, sometimes they have the same story topic, for example, but the Y2s do slightly more extended/difficult work on it.

There is/has been a range of reading levels/spellings/phonics.

It has never been a problem for me or my dc.

I have noticed that there has been a similar span of ability as when they were in their stright year groups, arbitrarily seperated at 1st September.

I'm just trying to envisage what the specialist training might be

Maybe Dappy's thinking about running it.

Oh, now wait a minute, it's coming back to me now. Specialist training.... perhaps that's what all those lectures at College and INSET days have been about?

hadn't realised it was just one class sorry. we had 3 classes of 1/2 and for english maths science they were set from Y1 the top group was predominantly comprised from the higher year and vice versa though we were never meant to know which was top middle and bottom it didn't take a genius to work it out.

At least it is a short term measure only

I am sorry if I offend anyone, particularly as I can tell from the responses that some of you are teachers. I admire your profession - I know I couldn't do it. You all do a marvellous job with limited resources & no doubt little thanks. Clam sorry if I offended you, wrong choice of words perhaps. Teachers are already overworked (meeting government regulations & paperwork etc) & we expect far too much of you, so to put this added responsibilty onto the staff for the short period of time is unfair. Please accept my apology. However, the responses are great as we are intersted in the whole picture from both sides, this is new to us & we are scared of the implications of change & the affect on our children. More info has come from you guys in one night than received to date. Thank you.

Fair enough. Really though, dappy, it's immaterial whether the children's birthdays fall between a given time period - teachers ae used to teaching what the children need to know next based on their individual abilities, definitely not their age. It will be fine, honestly.

Two local schools round here have composite classes. One divides the children on emotional maturity, and the other strictly by age.

Parents complain about both systems!

I've taught composite classes and absolutely love them. As a teacher, it gives me the chance to teach each child exactly where they are, rather than within the expectations of a certain year group.

I'm not sure why you think that Year 2 is any more important than any other year group. Perhaps you could explain your thinking about this.

FWIW, I was in mixed year group classes for three out of my seven years at primary school and I don't recall it being that bad. It was a long-established practice at my school, and just accepted as the way things were done. I can understand you being anxious if it isn't something you've experienced before though.

At the risk of sounding arrogant/boastful (which isn't like me at all!) I really don't think the experience affected me in terms of educational achievement. I went on to get straight 'A's at A level, graduated from a fairly decent uni and have a rather respectable-sounding job (though currently at home having a lovely time with DS ).

Socially, the classes did tend to divide into their own year groups, however I don't remember there being any real difficulties when we did work together at school.

I hope this helps a little and that things work out well for your DS too.

If it was for the whole year group - whole school - indefinately maybe not such a concern but we believe (as we have not really been given the information)it's about poss 15/20 or so children being separated from their current year group intergated with the lower year group & in a different part of the school, for one year. How will those children (and their parents) feel about that? Please can someone out there see why we feel like this. It's not about the standard of education provided, that's fab - no complaints so far. No offence is meant to any teacher or provider of education you all work blooming hard.

It sounds to me like the problem is more about the fact that you haven't been given enough information yet.

The school may not be able to give you any more information at the moment, as they are still working out the details. I just don't think it's worth getting worked up about until you know what is actually going to happen.

The school may not have any choice about doing this if their budgets are tight.

Littlefish my thinking is based on being told by the school(having had one child already progress through to Juniors) that Y2 is important due to the assesment tests etc that is carried out in order to assess them & support their transition to Y3 (Junior School)and that it is a particular difficult time for them emotionally as they are preparing to leave Infant school. I'm not the expert on these matters I just remember being told this when I had a few days leave denied to me a couple of years ago when I asked if I could take the children out for a couple of days for our only holiday that year. May I add that I didn't take them out, I renegotiated anuual leave with my boss & ended up paying an extortionate supplement to take them in the main holidays.....but that's another arguement for another day!

Our school has composite P1/2 classes, as well as stright P1 and P2 classes. I felt a bit like you when I found out that dd1 would be in the composite in P1, but it turned out to be a really good thing. Our school divides them by roughly assessing what groups will work well together. The way the HT described it was that in any class there will be different groups woeking at different paces- teachers are well ersed at this. In the composite class there are fewer P1s and P2s, but still roughly 3 or 4 teaching groups, iyswim. For dd1, it meant that she was in a smaller group of peers, compared to a straight P1 class, so great for making friends as they all stuck together.

Based on my experiences with her, I am almost hoping that dd2, who starts in August, WILL be in the composite class, which tends to be smaller than the straight P1 class (25, as opposed to 30 children!)

I think you are right Littlefish, but we have only 8 weeks ish to come to a solution whereupon the majority agree & perhaps in heinsight the school should have let us know about this situation way before now. I can tell you there a 'just a few' upset parents in the playground & some not even willing to listen to the arguement. I'd like to think that although I'm not in favour of this proposal I will listen to all points made. Can't promise I'll be swayed though :0)

Thank you guys your input is really valuable & I'm sure will keep us discussing it until we reach a solution...whatever that may be.