treating your children differently schoolwise?

[miggy]

I have 3 children ds1 is 16, went from prep to fairly high powered private secondary and thriving and excelling. dd 11 is moving on to same school next year and I know will be the same.
ds2 (13) was due to also move their from his prep school this autumn. My problem is that he is a bloody monster. The last 3 years he has done little or no work, Im not talking extra work just standard homeworks. He is very bright just cant be bothered. Everything is a fight to get him to do anything. He lies to me about whether he has homework or not and I am at my wits end with him. I have tried every strategy I can think of, and tried to get the school to help.
He is taking scholarship exams next week but has no chance whatsoever really. Doesnt even bother to turn up for choir (and lied to me a whole term about that) when he is gifted with a lovely voice.
I just dont see the point in spending 3 more years paying extortionate fees for him to not take the oppurtunities he is given and for there to be constant fights for the next three years.
Options are local state secondary or another independant school locally which is almost half the price and less driven so he could find his own nniche.
He desperately wants to go to his siblings school and I worry that I am going to spend the rest of my life feeling guilty, and he will throw it back in my face for ever.
Has anyone done this?

Will he even be offered a place at his siblings school if he's not doing well academically? You mention scholarship exams - are there also entrance exams? I would have thought that might be an incentive for him to put the effort in if he wants to go there that much...

I believe (as a general principle) in picking the school that is right for the individual child, whether or not their siblings are there. But I don't think it would be right to punish him by refusing to send him to the same school as them.

If it's quite a "driven" school, I would think they'd either not offer him a place, or else not let him stay if he got a place and carries on as he has been - then at least you could say to him "School says shape up or ship out - which are you going to do?" and put the ball back into his court so its not you being unfair to him.

I think I'm coming down to applying for a place for him at his siblings school, letting him start there if he gets it, and hoping he sorts himself out.

Trouble is that he is bright enough that he can "wing it", so things like english and maths he is top 2 or 3 in year group. Other subjects he can also get above the pass mark for common entrance.
He has been awarded a choral exhibition-so they do want him, but I can see that being taken away after a term when he doesnt bother to turn up for choir etc.
You are right about "punishing him" trouble is part of me, if im honest, wants to do that. I am so cross and frustrated with him. Just this week I have had emails from 3 teachers and a phone call from another, about missing prep. When I have sat him down and asked "do you have any prep" and being told "no"
But thats childish and not good parenting. Just dont know how to get through to him.
Have given him endless chances and laid it on the line so many times but nothing changes.

I know homework is sort of down to the parents, but I'm a bit surprised that the current school haven't found any effective way of punishing him for it - back in my day (ancient times....) we got lines and detention for not handing in homework, and that was just in an ordinary state school. Most people worked out fairly fast that it took less effort to do the homework than the punishment, so they did it. Half-heartedly and at the last minute perhaps, but they did it...

Do you think he is just bored at his current school? Or has picked up a bad attitude from friends? It might be that the new school is what he needs to give him an incentive to sort himself out.

Maybe, since he is so keen to go there, you could have a serious adult talk with him about why you are wondering whether to send him there or not, and make it clear that you are not going to keep spending the money on school fees if he's not going to put the effort in.

It he is desperate to go to the school, he knows what he needs to do, and I'd present it to him like this.

If he is capable but lazy, I'd make sure he knows that unless he achieves X between now and the end of the year, his place at his siblings' school is in doubt - and cite the cost of the school. Give him the alternatives, and let him get on with it.

Of course you can only do this if you are 100% prepared to send him to an alternative school if he doesn't sort himself out.

As for choir, does he actually enjoy it? If he likes it once he's there but can't be bothered to turn up, I'd set up clear consequences for missing practice. If he hates it, let him stop.

Current school have been hopeless with this issue to be honest. Problem is that he is small, angelic looking and a model of good behaviour, so when he flutters his eyelashes and says "Im sorry I didnt do the prep because-insert 1 of 2001 excuses-" They fall for it.
It wasnt till then end of last year that we realised how bad the situation was. Start of this year, I set up a meeting with his tutor, with him present, to spell out what would happen if he didnt work this year. His tutor even said that he would give him such a bad reference he wouldnt get in to the school. Yes yes he agreed to start doing some work. No change!
I have asked the school to give him as many detentions as they like, to let me know the minute prep isnt done, to try and have some system so that I at least know what he is meant to be doing but nothing. Grrrr!
Trouble is that this term they have been revising and I foolishly believed him when he said his prep was revision
He doesnt like choir but likes his singing lessons and is grade 5 singing-but whats the point if you arent going to sing ?

I think you are on dangerous ground if you don't send him to his siblings' school. He can always throw it back at you that you didn't think he was as good as the others, and it could give him further excuse to do little work with little effort. The new school might just be tougher on him and get him to change his attitude. It doesn't sound to me like his current school is doing much to help either you or your ds at the moment.

Letting him know that you are considering the options may not be a bad thing though... Maybe a trip round your local state secondary might be a good option. Take him with you and show him where he will be if he doesn't conform with what the new school expects. I don't mean this in a scary "if you don't watch out you'll end up here" way, more a "this is what the option is if you choose to not try". Then he knows that the choice is down to him and not just you denying him the other school because you are cross.

I would let him stop choir if he doesn't like it. Are there new activities at school he could try which might engage him more?

You sound very pushy ambitious for your DS2, OP. Is that what you think attending the better independent school should be about achievement rather than outlook, connections, opportunities, ethos and atmosphere? I know how exasperating it is to have offspring waste their natural abilities, but I'm not sure that external pressure/punishment is the right way forward it obviously isn't working in your case.

I would be tempted to tell him that he can't attend the 'driven' school unless he starts working harder, maybe make up a homework diary which you check off every day.

Even if you think I'm full of it, may I otherwise point out that if you send him to state school he will mix with the riffraff?

DC are the riffraff at state school. But I often worry that for kids (like my DS1) who aren't inherently self-motivated that they are at the highest risk of the worst of peer-pressure -- including the massive peer pressure to under-perform!

He is 13, which is old enough to be responsible for your own learning, with a bit of support and guidance.

It sounds v. much as if you are trying to push him into being somebody he isn't, and being difficult about it is his way of taking back some control.

If he's bright enough to get into the good school and wants to go there, then of course you should send him. But you need to accept that his idea of where he wants to go may be different from your own. I suspect you will have more luck if you try and make it clear that he will need to take responsibility for his school work and that the decisions he makes will have long-term impacts on his life chances and choices.

A this age you cannot make him do stuff against his will, and if you carry on trying you run the risk of pushing him further and further in the other direction. You need to try and separate your thoughts about what would genuinely be in his best interest from your own agenda about the kind of life you want for him. He may have very different plans.

If he gets into his siblings' school you should send him. After a year or so and if he's not working you can send him elsewhere. Give the lad a chance to reform. With high achievers around him he may change his ways. He can never say that you didn't let him try in the future.