Multiplication Tables

[toodles]

At what age should children know their multiplication tables by heart?

Sorry for not getting back to the thread. It's been a crazy week.

Thanks for all the replies, especially DyslexiaTeach - that must have taken a long time to write. It's confirmed to me that my dd should learn them by rote as she isn't strong in Maths.

Did you know that to go from knowing the 1, 2, 5 and 10 times tables and the commutative law (i.e. that 6 x 7 = 7 x 6 etc) to knowing the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 10 times table you only need to learn 15 new facts?

To go from knowing the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 10 times table to knowing the full set up to 10 x 10 tables you only need to learn 6 new facts.

So much time spent chanting tables. So much time wasted.

Learning the 11 and 12 times tables are a waste of time for most children and harp back to the 12 pennies in a shilling and 12 inches in a foot days. Learning the square numbers will be much more advantageous in the long run.

I taught maths at all levels from junior school to A level for over thirty years, so I have a little experience in this field.

Good luck

Alan Young

Hello earlyonemorning

Not quite sure how the 12 and 24 hour clocks require the use of the 12 times table. Could you please be a little more specific and tell us what type of calculations you had in mind.

Thanks.

Both my children are severely dyslexic and had significant problems learning times tables by rote (poor working memory and sequencing problems - rote learning was a non starter really). They both had lost a lot of confidence in their ability to learn times tables.

But we succeeded in learning upper 3,4,6,7,8,9 times tables fairly quickly using a non rote method. "TIMESTALES" available at www.triggermemorysystems.com. Focuses on the strengths of visual learners -all pictures and stories. Also covers division. The front sheet says that children can learn their tables within an hour - took us about a month, but it worked where other methods didnt and both are now confident with their upper 3,4,6,7,8,9, tables. Worth every penny - have a look at their web site.

In my day, some 40 years ago, most kids learned them by the end of Year 3 and some by end of Year 2. Mind you, we had Miss Wilby back then and she was a stickler.

My DS will be able to do most of his at end of Year 3 and will be confident by end of Yr 4 so confirming once more that teaching standards have slipped by a year at Primary school in the last 40 years.

I borrowed this book from the library for my 1 year old, but while I have been reading it to him I thought it would be great to help kids learning their tables, especially visualising it, as it shows how many ants on each page (only goes up to 10x10). In the top corner of each page it has 1x1, 2x2 etc and on the last page there is a grid at the back.

www.amazon.co.uk/Ants-Marching-Classic-Books-Holes/dp/1846431093/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290818362&sr=8-1

Beenbeta My DS will be able to do most of his at end of Year 3 and will be confident by end of Yr 4 so confirming once more that teaching standards have slipped by a year at Primary school in the last 40 years.

Surely you cannot extrapolate that assumption from an anecdotal example of something which constitutes only part of today's curriculum? I would suggest that a number of recently educated children, would be better at knowing what constitutes evidence than you appear to, even if you can still beat them in a times tables head-to-head!

My Y4 DS is expected to know his tables inside out and back to front now (they start preparing them for Common Entrance very early). It works for him, but not for all. When I was at school, we learnt them all by rote in the equivalent of Y3. We had to go in at break and recite them. If we didn't know them, we had to miss the rest of break to learn them properly, and every break until we did know them. That must have been in 1980.

year 3 and DS is expected to learn 2,3,4,5,6,8,10,11

I have a 13x13 box empty grid which I print out and then randomly insert the numbers 1-12 along the top and 2-12 along the side. I then set a timer ready to sit DS2 (Y5, very 'average') down- the only rule being he answers sequentially not 'table wise'. He does perhaps 5 a week.

He's getting really fast now!

A knowledge and instantaneous recall of the times tables is fundamental. It isn't wasted time.

A couple of tricks for tables I taught dd are

5 times table: if even, halve the number and times by 10.
if odd, take one away, do above then add on 5

6 times table. Work out 5 times then add on number you are timesing.

9 times: take one away for tens column then put the number which adds up to 9 in units.
eg. 7*9
7-1=6
6+3=9
so 63

We found for 9 table its easier to think of the 10 then take away the odd one.

So 98 is 80 take away 8 = 72
96 is 60 take away 6 = 54

My DS will be able to do most of his at end of Year 3 and will be confident by end of Yr 4 so confirming once more that teaching standards have slipped by a year at Primary school in the last 40 years.

surely all that proves is your son isn't as clever as you and your peers.

a really easy way of working out 9X

mrz I showed this to DD2 aged 6 in the week and she now thinks she is the dogs BS now!

We do physical rote learning in my Y2 class(IYSWIM):

once (touch head)
two (touch shoulders)
is (touch knees)
two (touch toes)

2 (H) 2s (sh) is (kn) 4 (toes)
etc

It's a good way of teaching multiples as the multiples land on your toes (and getting some exercise!).

We recite as an orchestra. I'm the conductor and wave arms in time to the recitation. I go quicker and slower and the chn have to keep up. (All this after 'tapping the music stand and mouthing 'are you ready?' - making a bit of a show of it!)

After finishing a series of quick adding tests to 100 they start their x tables tests (from 2) which continue up the school and include division).

We also play 'shoot the sheriff' where we arrange a duel between 2 cowboys and the quickest to recit a table shoots the other. One boy last year beat me at the twos!

I tell them to learn them with background noise so they know them without thinking. We also recite them in some way every day.

We are doing 2s, 5s, 10s, but will soon move on to 3s.

My son is dyslexic and I have tried a whole myriad of different methods of teaching him his times tables. Came across this software programme from the US called Timez Attack. It is excellent, seems more like a game and son loves it. Programme has been improved since I bought a copy which means it should be even better.

A sing-a-long CD?

End of year 5, instant recall. Earlier if poss.

mrz you are lving in a fantasy if you think standards haven't slipped

hana - totally agree.

I am sick of the faffing about. DS2 is in Yr 4 and we are determined to have him learn them by rote by the end of Xmas holidays. They just dont practice enough at school. Me and DW did know them word perfect by then in the old fashioned way and there is no reason he shouldn't be the same.