Moving to Australia after GCSEs - will this destroy chances of Oxbridge?

[florenceuk]

My sister is thinking of moving to Melbourne for work for a few years - however her daughter is currently finishing off GCSEs and is very keen to read history and maths at Oxbridge (or at least aspires to). She is convinced that moving countries will put paid to any academic success. My helpful intervention was that it was terribly hard but she might have more success doing an undergrad in Australia and then doing a graduate degree in the UK. However of course this is not really acceptable to a teenager. Niece is very bright and focused, have no idea whether Oxbridge is attainable. But will it really be the end of all possible chances for going to Oxbridge if she moves countries at A level?

Yes, no-one from Australia has ever been to Oxbridge.

Sorry, that just came out. But why don't you, or your sister, get in touch with Oxford and/or Cambridge admissions office and ask their opinion? I'm sure they'd tell you exactly what you need to know.

Btw, you cannot do joint honours (eg. history and maths) at Cambridge.

If daughter was v mature and v keen on the Oxbridge route, and if money not a problem, would the family consider letting daughter study at boarding 6th Form (there are several UK state schools that offer free 6th form tuition, and you only pay the accommodation), and travel out to Oz for holidays?

She is very mature but BIL would not allow her to I'm afraid. Plus it would be a huge stretch financially.

contacting admissions sounds too sensible! I was hoping to rely on Mumsnet wisdom.

Sorry, florence, I think Oxbridge would tend to say you need to talk to them about her individual situation. In theory, it should be fine, but they might have pointers about what specific issues to watch for.

I've been to both and friends work in admissions, so I'm both aware of the sort of things that Oxbridge say, and aware that they always recommend that you come to them individually, and they treat each person individually. If she is bright and interested, as you say, I would think it could only help to show that she was able to adapt to a new system.

Thanks LRD - that sounds encouraging. I'll encourage sister to talk to admissions as she obv knows loads more about what niece has achieved at this stage.

Talk to Oxford and Cambridge admissions offices. Find out what qualifications she will need and find out what kind she will be able to take in Australia.

There are Australian undergrads and grads at Oxford and Cambridge. She could apply as an international student with an overseas qulaification or an international qualificatio such as IB. This link is to the internatonal admissions section of the Oxford University website.

The alternative is to send the DD to a UK boarding school to do A levels and apply as a UK domestic student.

Just don't rely absolutely on getting into Oxbridge. My son had interview for entry this year but didn't get offered a place (for history). 11 GCSEs at A and predicted 4 x A for A level in History, English, Latin and Maths. It's not all about grades unfortunately. Nevermind, Durham will do v well.

Whatever her future plans I suspect there will be issues regarding the school systems. I only know what I get off Neighbours but wouldn't their exams and therefore results be at different times of year. Would she need to have 6 months out before starting at the beginning of the new academic year?

Students can't do history AND maths at Oxford or Cambridge - she will need to choose one or the other. Might that change her preferred university?

If not, my feeling would be that she will do best to find a school in Oz where she can do A levels or (more likely) the International Baccalaureate. I'd like to say that Oxbridge will consider less familiar qualifications equally, and I'm sure that is what their admissions office would say, but to be honest, I suspect that when they have so many applicants with multiple As at A level, they may not be inclined to take the risk of someone with much less familiar qualifications.

Bear in mind also that Oxbridge interviews for places - she would need to attend an interview in England in the December of her last school year. The interview is, I think, a massive influence on who gets in and who doesn't (since as I say they have so many applicants with the required level of quals). Jet lag certainly won't help so she'd ideally need to be over in the UK for a week or so before the interview to get over it.

hope that helps. Ultimately, a place at Oxbridge cannot be guaranteed no matter how bright she is - they are so oversubscribed it's always going to be a bit of a lottery. Plus, she may end up deciding it isn't what she wants after all.

Funnily enough I did history and maths AND economics but in NZ - ended up as an economist. So I have some sympathy with her current intentions! However I'm sure she'd settle for a history major. Pippop1, sorry to hear about your son - he sounds very bright and I'm sure he will do well at Durham.

Thanks for all the contributions, just to clarify the intention is that the family returns and she applies as a UK domestic student. However it sounds like whatever she does she needs to think a bit wider than Oxbridge.

Agree with minipie - finding a school in oz to do IB so that she keeps her options open, although this might mean looking at private education.
Yes, school year is from February to December so she might find herself having to repeat half a year or go into one where she has to catch up, not ideal if it is her senior years.
Each state in Oz has it's own education system, so she would need to look at the VCE (I think that's what it is called)

mimipie - you can do join honours maths and history at Oxford, unless they've scrapped in in the last 3 years. Not at Cambridge, though.

As pip says, you do need excellent grades and then something special, and then a whole lot of luck - she would be wise to have a fallback if Oxbridge doesn't work out (and you can only apply to either Oxford or Cambridge in the one admissions year, except in very special circumstances).

There are very good Australian Universities. If she wants Oxbridge she might be interested in something like PPE too.
However if she saw the move as a positive one, then she would be more likely to be the kind of person Oxford Colleges would want. Also why doesn't she consider US universities too? A much broader based education, some financial support even for overseas students, and some very prestigious Universities.

There was an Australian guy on University Challenge this year representing Oxford. So a few of those pesky Antipodeans manage to get there!

Could she do IB (International Baccalaureate) in Oz instead of the standard exams? IB is looked on fairly well by Oxbridge and they make plenty of IB offers every year.

One of my friends was in a similar situation, her parents moved abroad when she was 16, she stayed in the UK in boarding school for 6th form but when she applied to Oxford she had foreign student status - she went through a different applications process, and her parents had to pay very high fees - universities make a lot of money out of fees to foreign students, so it might be worth checking out the regulations for that.

She may have to pay overseas fees (running to around 10-15k/year at Oxbridge, I believe).

I agree with Teddy that she should look into IB. The leaving certificate is administered by states here, and it can be quite hard even to go to university in Victoria if you did your schooling in Western Australia.

I did my undergraduate degree in Australia and my graduate degree at Cambridge and your advice was good - I think it was much easier than it would have been to do my undergrad there. Australian teachers wouldn't have a clue about how to prepare you or where to point you for financial assistance - it's just too far out of their experience. At least when you come to apply for graduate study, your university has sent other students and many of the professors went there themselves.

I think that going to a Uni in a different country at age 18 is slightly risky unless the child is very confident. It is not unknown for very high ability students to suffer stress in their first year at Uni and it is good to have their family around (at least in the same country) just in case.

Hmm. I don't know: I think having family close isn't as important as having family who equip you to be on your own. After all, no parent can keep rushing down to sort their student child out every time he or she has a problem, wherever that child is. It's better to prepare before university and discuss what the problems might be and how she can become more independent now.

Ime, far fewer overseas students at Oxford struggled than their British peers - the overseas students had generally been much better prepared by parents who knew they couldn't fly in and make everything better. So I don't know that it's a problem as such.

the fees issue is completely separate to the qualifications.

I can't offhand remember the exact rules to do with qualifying for home fees but I know that there there is a special exemption for UK students who don't mee the residency requirements purely because their parents have been temporarily emplyed outside the UK.

Qualifications are a separate issue - ie she can apply with Australian qaulifications even if she is applying as a 'home fee status' student. Oxford have a very comprehensive list online of oversears qualifications that they accept in place of a-levels. They will be very used to dealing with these qualifications.

LRD are you sure? just had a check on their web page. looks like maths and economics yes, maths and languages yes, maths and philosophy yes, maths and history no.

At Cambridge you tend to be able to do part I (usually two years) in one subject and then switch to do part II (usually but not always 1 year) in another. Maybe talk to admissions tutors in both maths and history about this, and think about which she would like to do first, and whether this approach would suit her.

OK, you might be right mini. I just asked DP 'didn't your friend do history and maths' and he said yes, but it's possible they dropped the course. They graduated in 2008, so it's a little while ago. I think in general, they will let you do all sorts of combinations if you ask for it.

At Cambridge, you would have to make a formal transfer after Part 1, and have Part 1 in one subject and Part II in the other, and it's occurred to me that I did know a lad who has English and Maths as his two, so I guess it could just about be done.

A bigger question I guess is that someone applying to do joint honours in two non-related subjects will always need a very good reason for it, and will need to be very strong in both subjects. Given this girl hasn't done her A-levels yet, she might change her mind anyway, and come to prefer one subject over the other - it's worth thinking about.

Crossposted with choosy.

Cambridge never guarantee to let you change subjects between Pt1 and II, though. So it would be a gamble.