State/Prep/Bursaries argh!!

[twolittlemonkeys]

Hi all I need some help

I've had a phone call from DS1's kindergarten teacher saying she hopes I don't mind but she made some enquiries with an excellent local prep school as to whether they have a discretionary fund for gifted pupils who can't afford private education and that they do and the headmaster will be expecting a call from me if I'm interested in this (!??) As it happens I don't mind, and appreciate the effort she has gone to and the interest in DS's education, though I am a bit bewildered. She said in 20 years running a kindergarten she hasn't come across a 4 year old who is as advanced as he is. About a third of the children from his kindergarten go on to prep schools at 4 so she knows the schools pretty well.

I had DS's name down for a state school locally as there's no way we can afford to send him privately. Whilst it would be fabulous if he could attend a school more likely to stretch him and where he will get a lot more attention than he would at our local state primary, it's highly unlikely that we'll be offered assistance to cover all the fees isn't it? What other things do I need to take into consideration with regards to sending him to a prep vs state?

My head's in a muddle as I'd just made my peace with accepting whichever state school he gets offered (we don't find out until May) and now suddenly prep school has been thrown into the equation. I'm not quite sure how to approach this when I ring the headteacher tomorrow. Help!

Sorry for long post

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Goodness, I'd be incredibly annoyed that she did this to be honest. If she thought that it was possible then she should have advised you and left it in your hands to arrange, by doing this she has interferred.

There's alot more to a private school then the fees, the children get homework every night, are you able timewise to supervise this? The term dates are often shorter so it's difficult to find a job that works around this, there's added costs aswell, the uniform alone is quite often £300+. Go into this with your eyes wide open and know all of the facts. Do go and have a look around though to see what's on offer, you have nothing to loose but please make sure it's right for your son and the rest of your family.

Has the Kindergarten teacher got any personal link to the private school? (I'm just an old cynic!)

Its not true that prep school children always get homework every night. Mince certainly don't (Yr 1 & Yr 3) and in fact they get far less homework than my state educated neices.

I agreew with dilemma with regards to the uniform. Virtually no-one buys uniform new at my childrens school and the quality os so good that dd is on 3rd hand uniform. Often you will find that things are made adjustable to last several years.

All schools are different so it is important to go in with your eyes open and see what the situation is.

ds's first prep used to give them homework every night.

Have a look around, you don't have to send him anywhere.

Ds's prep school uniform was cheaper than the state equivalent. You can take a packed lunch too.

Like others have said I would approach this with an open mind and see where it goes. Not every child at prep school comes from a wealthy home.

ds's first blazer was £55! The food was dire so he didn't grow aswell. Grrr!

Thanks for the excellent advice - I know the uniforms are expensive - I'd get anything I could cheaper (eg grey shirt & trousers from Asda etc) but the uniform list I looked at online is ridiculous, cricket kit and 2 different coloured rugby kits on top of usual P.E. kit for a 5 year old???!!

Second hand uniform sales definitely sound like the way to go if I decide to go down this route. I will look into all the expenses involved before making a decision though.

DS's kindergarten teacher doesn't have links to the school but just knows them well as lots of children go there (5 out of the 15 or so children leaving this year are going to this particular prep) but she is aware that we're not financially well off (eg has allowed us to pay in installments rather than term's fees up front, which she normally requests) so I suppose she enquired about the bursaries before telling us so as not to get our hopes up if they didn't have any kind of financial hardship fund.

Have made an appointment to see the headteacher on 10th May, so hopefully that'll give me time to think up all the questions I might want to ask! Thanks for all the helpful insights! They're sending me a prospectus which will hopefully have more information than the website.

It is often said that the super-bright do well academically, no matter what school thay attend, so you need to consider the non-academic side of things.
If your DS is that bright then this is not a once-in-a-lifetime chance. He can apply again at other milestones (age 7, age 11 etc).

I am very surprised that the school is offering an assisted place at so young an age - some kids can appear Gifted at this age but then plateau whilst their peers catch up. Without wanting to diss your DS, is this just a ploy to increase numbers in the recession? How many years will the award be for?

It sounds as if you are tempted by the idea of private. Perhaps it is worth going State now and saving up, so that you can afford the add-ons at Independent (assuming that you get a scholarship/bursary) for Secondary?

Thanks senua, interesting thought. I suppose I'm aware of gifted children who don't get stimulated in state system because with a 1:30 ratio they just can't get stretched as much as they need and get bored and unmotivated. My DS does need to be constantly stimulated otherwise I know he'll get up to mischief Before this I hadn't considered private primary education but was hoping he could go to state then get an assisted place for secondary (as I did at 11). This phonecall from kindergarten has kind of caught me off-guard!

It sounds like you have made your mind up but all I wanted to say is that I would a little cautious with this.

It is very unusual behaviour in my opinion and experience, for a teacher to be this intrusive about such a personal choice. You could be politically against private and she could have even offended you in asking about bursaries.

You haven't said much about the state primary you considered. There is a huge difference in state schools as there is in privates, so are you sure the money is worth the investment?

Take care and good luck in whatever you decide, I know how difficult these choices are and I have already made a mistake and hopefully made the right one now for my kids.
Unfortunately you only know once you've done it, hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Oh no my mind is far from made up. If we get offered our first choice state primary, I'm thinking we'll probably go for that, excellent school, good G&T programme etc but will wait and see what the head says when we see him - it'd have to be pretty much a 100% bursary (v unlikely I expect) for us to be able to send DS1 there.

I would say don't get dazzled by the whole thing - bright child, private school etc = path of happiness....etc etc

For me it matters whether the school suits the child - nothing else. There are so many factors. Just because your child is advanced at 4 does not mean he will necessarily be happy in this particular school, even if they offer you a free place.

My one experience of private education has made me VERY cautious about it. I have found more professionalism and good teaching in the state sector!

Please don't accept that he'll get up to mischief if he isn't stretched all the time. All children, even very able ones, need to behave well and be expected to do so. And all adults need to be able to cope with boredom quietly, it's a life skill.

But wanted to add - the 1 to 30 ratio in state IS a problem. I have a bright DS with SEN....I do think that if you're SEN/bright with SEN/'gifted' then that IS something the state sector can struggle with. We are still struggling to have DS' needs met so I am not advocating purely for the state system. I do think though that it is easier for the state system to meet the needs of bright kids, without the SEN - easier to extend and enrich a curriculum than it is to make a curriculum fit with a child who can't access it for whatever reason.

But I do want to advocate alot of caution and no assumptions being made either way.

And one thing I have found in the state system, despite our struggles, is professional teachers who operate in a professsional manner with us. It hasn't answered all our problems, no, but we can rely on them to relate well to us and DS. Something that WAS lacking in the private sector, for us.

You don't have to be a qualified teacher to teach in a private school, btw.

Does the kindergarten person know your financial circumstances? Because you have to be on quite a low income to get a decent bursary.

I know we can't afford private schools for the dcs - but earn too much and have too much equity in home to qualify for any assistance - and schools look quite hard at what you've got. They're on to the people who can demonstrate they only earn £5K (some self-employed can do a bit of jiggery-pokery) but live in a mortgage-free house and have a fleet of 4X4s.

That sounded a bit rude! I'm not implying you live in a mansion and drive a Grand Cherokee, but do bear in miind that even quite a modest income is too excessive for most schools to offer financial assistance.

Hello I am in a similar position with a v bright kid who might well qualify for a bursary/scholarship.

But I do wonder who on earth gets these bursaries. Because it seems to get the maximum of about 50% off the fees you need to have a lowish income, but yet inexplicably still have enough income left to pay the other 50% yourself.

So, it all seems a bit Alice-in-Wonderland to me. It strikes me you need to be poor yourself but with rich grandparents to go down the bursary route. Scholarships seem to only knock about 10% off.

All the London schools I've contacted muttered about how the rules have tightened regarding bursaries. The figure seems to be to get 50% off the fees of £12,000 you need to earn less than £40,000. Is this really the case? Does anyone have any different experiences?

IME, an infants school class is more then able to cater for a bright child, they also don't stand out too much so bullying isn't an issue, it's in the junior school where the problems are. Infant classes are normally fairly small anyway, they are not usually taught as a class but in small groups. I think it really does depend on how bright your son is aswell, there's a huge difference between being top of the class and years ahead. How advanced is he? There are other private schools aswell if this is the way you choose to go, have a look around some more, the fees vary hugely, as do the schools. Private isn't necessarily the best.

Belle, he's been able to read since he was 2 and is now reading very confidently, pretty much whatever we put in front of him. He easily reads books which a friend who is a retired deputy-head brought over which she used for Yr 3 children. He is also very quick with numbers and instantly adds & subtracts.

I know he'll need support wherever he goes. He does currently have visits from SEN Inclusion Team here, as we suspect he has Aspergers' Syndrome, so falls into the slightly unusual bracket of being G&T but also SEN. Not sure how they will cope with that wherever he goes to school.

The more I think about the private school, the more uneasy I feel. I'll go with an open mind though and just ask all the questions I need to so that we can make a decision on what is right for him. I just realised that one of my piano pupils attends the prep school we're visiting so may ask her mum for her honest opinion of the school.

From experience, a private school isn't necessarily the best one, especially if there's a hint of SN. My son is like yours, he was a very early reader, picks everything up in a matter of seconds but his social skills don't match his academic skills and it's always been a problem as the private school he was in first didn't have the pastoral care to be able to support him. He doesn't have aspergers, he just needed to mature in his own time which he has now done. Even at nursery he'd follow the staff around so he could talk to them and ask them questions, he wouldn't play with the other children as they couldn't communicate with him the way that he wanted them to. He'd play alongside them but not with them. At school he needed guidance on how to play with other children but he didn't get this, he was just told off constantly for annoying them. There's more scope for SN assessments in the state sector although they are quick to label a child I think. He didn't fit in his first school, he's incredibly bright and learns through questioning, it's not always appropriate though, especially not in a school where the head just wanted nice, well behaved, easy to teach children. He saw ds as a handful and recommended I put him in a boarding school (which I didn't). Please do question their inclusion policy and ask how they would support your son pastorally aswell as academically.

What everybody else is saying: caution and have a good look at the respective schools. Particularly if there was a suspicion of SN, I would want to know for sure that the private school had a good track record for SEN and pastoral support. Not that all state schools are brilliant either, but you do at least have the redress of the LEA/statements etc. With a private school, there is very little chance of going above the headteacher if he is inept at handling your ds's SN.

Thanks for that info on SN. They do have a section on the school website about what they do for SEN children, however I hadn't really thought about it being easier to get SN assessments in the state sector or being able to go to LEA if the school aren't being supportive. Interesting

Ds's first school advertised their 'expertise' with children who had mild SN/dyslexia/gifted and talented, they had very little experience to be frank, they had 2 G&T (one was my son), 1 dyslexic child and 1 that was kept back a year. None of these children had specific support from the school, a parents concerns about aspergers in her child was dismissed, he was found to have this when he was moved to a different school.

Do ask about the numbers involved, ask what SN support they actually have and how it works into the school day, do children have to miss part of a lesson for this etc, ask whether this is included in the fees aswell. The displays on the walls can be very revealing, they should (ideally) be a mixture and every child should have something on the wall, if they are all by the same few children then this would concern me.

As for the fees, ask whether it includes meals, books, pens etc.