Just how much is down to school?

[muggglewump]

I've been thinking about this for a while, the private vs state had registered with me since being on MN.
I also know in my town there is Private or State, and that's it, two schools (Unless you go Catholic and over my dead atheist body!)

But moreso recently with circumstances to do with my nephew.

My (Now ex) SIL has recently moved to a different area and my brother has said that he doesn't want my nephew to go to X school as SIL's nieces went there and haven't got great careers.

I don't have a great career, I don't have any career, my brother and I went to the same school, our parents moved house to get us in there.

Really though, my SIL and I were talking the other day and were saying that our kids are average, they are, academically, so is it so bad to let them go to the local school with their friends, and to state educate?
I can't move to get DD into the best School, she'll go to the School.

Would a better School really make a difference?
Would a Private School?

I do wonder, and it may be possible for secondary to get DD into private but is it really worth it?

Is it a good private? Just being private won't make a difference, there are some awful private schools out there, same as state schools.

I also think the child's temperament has a lot to do with it as well. If you have a child who will challenge themselves they will reach their full potential in any school.

However if you have a child who can't be bothered, and will do the minimum required they will pass but won't fly anywhere.

If you have a child in the middle who with a bit of shove persuasion, would step up a notch, then that's where a better school would make a difference, whether it's peer pressure, they want to perform better cause of the others, or the teachers will give them work that is slighlty above their ability rather than the comfort zone.

Children acquire skills because they are given opportunities to develop them. Private schools often (but by no means always) offer a much broader range of activities, beyond the purely academic, that can enable children to find their own talents and niche and have a more interesting life than if they had only been educated in the basics, albeit to a high standard.

If there is just the one school in your town then it should include a whole range of abilities, and may be a perfectly good school. Problems are usually more acute when there are good and bad state schools, and you can only get into the bad one. Sometimes a private school has a similar effect, but again they aren't all good. Before worrying yourself too much look at the school's ethos, results, Ofsteds etc. Parental support and the motivation of the child are really important, but peer aspirations and what the school presents as possibilities for future careers etc matter too.

Bear in mind that something like 93% of all children in the UK go to state school, and the majority of them go on to have successful and happy lives.

The 93:7 ratio is only the ratio of children at state school to children at private school at any one time.

More like 15% of children will spend at least part of their schooling in a private school.

Hi there,
I think that just school(private or state) is not the reason for people to get good or bad or none careers. In my opinion you can sent your kids to the best school in the country but if the support of the parent is not there, I don't think that kid will shine.
I think the right school with the support of the family is the best. I know of people that had been educated in private schools, considered very good schools, but they don't have careers to speak off.

A stable, loving family where learning is valued, where the children have parents with aspirations (not simply aspirations for their children - big difference )and where the children are encouraged and supported in all aspects of their learning, is by far the greater influence.

some kids will always do well no matter where they are educated because they want to succeed. I have friends with kids in private and state schools,(good and bad) and they have all gone on to good unis and achieved similar results in gcse and a levels. Parenting and support from home I feel has more of a bearing, as does the childs thirst to succeed. That said ,maybe in smaller classes a less inspired child may be pushed to achieve more than they would have done, but I really don't think we are talking the difference between a good and bad career, that is down to the child and adult they become. Also keeping in close contact with the school and monitoring their progress.

Want to second Bonsoir...
the range of opportunities within a school (whether state or private) and the way a school can encourage children to make the most of themselves - in self-belief, self-discipline, trying new things, positive behaviour, etc gives a child invaluable life skills which can set up them up as a person, and/or career.
.

PS Didn't a disproportionately high percentage of the British Olympic team come from the independent sector schools where children - whether academic or not - got the chance to develop their strengths?
(This is not a private v state argument per se, rather saying where a child's strengths can be discovered and developed, the child does well.)

Londonartemis - do you remember what happened with Tom Daley? He was at a State school and got bullied because he is so talented, he then got offered scholarships to private schools. Lots of private schools around me would love to have top atheletes and would offer them scholarships. (And the facilities at some are fabulous.) As private schools can also find it easier to be flexible about the curriculum, it can be a good option- if you are world class.

But for the rest of us........

Even a good school is no guarantee. An
extremely gifted friend of ours who went to Marlborough dropped out of the idea of any sort of career at an early stage.

Statistically, yes, more children at good schools will have a chance of finding out what they are good at and what they want to do.

But on the individual level, it is still down to that child.

Some people have come far from very humble beginnings and awful schools, because they just have a lot of drive.

Well no, cory, there are no guarantees in life ever, about anything. But if you provide your child with more opportunities for development, you are statistically more likely to get a more developed child, with a greater range and depth of skills, who is more likely to get into the more demanding universities and to get a better paid job.

This is what bugs everyone so much in the private vs. state school debate.

mummytime - interesting..I didn't know that about Tom Daley's background.
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On the whole it makes a different. Virtually all Olympic athletes go to private schools and for our family the much higher standard of music was important too.

Someone asked me the other day on here why I thought I was the best in the UK at what I do (however self deluded I might be). May be that is in part my education. Why my children's father always said who has taught in both sectors is that if it's going to financially crucify your family it's just not worth the pain. If you can reasonably easily do it as I can (paid 5 lots of school fees etc) then it's usually worth it - but choose carefully. Some schools in both sectors are awful.

I've just come back to this, thanks so far.

I have no idea if it's a good Private School, I've never looked into it as a possibility, why would I?

But my Dad has vaguely hinted a few times, I think as he knows how much I hate living here and how much I don't think the School is great, and I don't.
I have friends with kids there and I'm just not impressed with any part of it, but what can I do?

As I say, it's a vague thing, and may never come to anything, and even if it did, could I send DD there, given we will never fit in with the other pupils, lifesytle wise I mean.

Of course the thing is to move, but that's currently out of the question.

I don't want to fail DD, I don't want to send her to a shit School, but even if I can, I don't want to send her to certain death with Pony Club and Ski Trips either.

I do take an interest in her learning, but I don't have a career, I like to watch soaps and there are not many museums where we live, nor extra cash for trips to them.

We are (if my health can manage it) going to Les Mis on Thursday if that counts? I fear not.

I don't even know if I have the choice, but am wondering about it and what it may be able to offer DD, because I really think the State School has nothing to offer her (or anyone but the brightest, most conscientious kids from the best backgrounds, and DD isn't).

What I meant with my post is, yes there is nothing wrong with trying to provide the best you can.

(Incidentally, there is no reason to believe that making friends with children who belong to pony clubs and go on ski trips has to be certain death- they might actually be very nice people! And learning to deal with the fact that you are not as rich as some of your friends can be educational in its own right. Dh went to independent school on a scholarship and thoroughly enjoyed. Never suffered from the fact that the other kids were richer. He did fail his A-levels though)

But if you have to settle for something less than the ideal, that doesn't have to be the end of it. Personal drive can still do a lot. I have a higher degree and a better education than dh despite my lack of private schooling- because I did the work and he didn't.

And again, not everybody who ends up in a less well paid job or with a less high flying career feels short-changed.

Most people aren't posh at the private schools near us. You can be very common and have a lot of money or indeed working class and not much money. Most children aren't particularly nasty about things like that. Only one of mine ever chose to go on a school ski trip although they could have done had they chosen to. At the schools many of the children including mine wore second hand school uniform from the second hand uniform sale. Many have 6 family members putting wages into funding one place (but this is outer London where you get huges numbers of very hard working people from all kinds of backgrounds using academic private schools so may not be the same as in other places).

There did used to be a problem with some very poor children who were terribly bright who went to grammar school and ended up completeyl different from their families and then feeling a big gulf with them. I don't think the risk of causing that gulf however is sufficient to deny children a good education.

And yes if it's about 200 in the whole country of all schools based on proper A levels (not woodwork etc) then it will be a very good school.

Mugglewump - btw you can get death by Pony Camp at some state schools. My neice went to a state grammar where her friends had Rolex watches (and not fake). There are also lots of different kids at private schools, not everyone is rich, so have bankrupted themselves for the fees.

For all schools, don't go on hear-say. Don't pre-judge, and do visit during the normal working day. (I would never send my kids to a school which wouldn't allow that.)