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Original poster

Does anyone know the ruling on First Aid on school trips?

23 replies

MaureenMLove · 01/04/2010 20:46

I should know this. I'm the Trip Co-ordinator at school, but I'm damned if I can find any info on it!

It just occured to me today. When we have a Guiding function, we always have to have a firstaider on the team. At school, it doesn't seem to matter.

I've just authorised a trip to France for the day and I just think it should be a rule to have a firstaider as one of the staff?

What do you think/know?

OP posts:

callmeovercautious · 01/04/2010 20:49

I will check it out for you

Nymphadora · 01/04/2010 20:53

Should be a first aider BUT IIRC it is a first aider for the staff not the kids as part of the first aid at work policy. 1:?? staff.

School should have policy on staff treating pupils though and good practice to send one for the kids as imagine the reaction if someone got hurt!

callmeovercautious · 01/04/2010 21:06

Ok so it seems the guidance is no more specific than for any other employer however I found this guide you might find helpful here.

So as a H&S guru here is my advice:

You need to risk assess the trip - are they going rock climbing? or just Lunch and shopping? If the later then perhaps the risk is low enough to not worry too much. Or maybe you have DC on the trip who may have special needs or are higher risk for some reason (Diabetic?) If so then someone with at least appointed persons training would be of benefit.

There is no legal requirement unless something goes wrong - then you would need to know you have provided the as much provision as was pracicable in the circumstances.

I don't mind helping you with the RA if you like.

Original poster

MaureenMLove · 01/04/2010 21:13

Thankyou. That's all the info I got, that we were only responsible for staff injuries! Mad!

I think it would just be good practice that a first aider should be going on some trips. Not all of them. Like you say, many are verylow risk, but a trip abroad, even it's only a day trip to France, I think would be advantageous. (And score us brownies points with the Powers that be!)

Now all I need to do, is get more staff to take the first aid course that's running at school in May! It's all very well thinking it's a good idea, but there are only 2 first aiders at school atm, and I'm one of them!

OP posts:

southeastastra · 01/04/2010 21:20

yes make a designated first aider but everyone obviously should be basically trained.

definitely risk assess as best you can. make sure first aider has kit to hand at all times (we have bum bags )

Original poster

MaureenMLove · 01/04/2010 21:29

I've got a bum bag too! I don't use it at work. First aid comes to me, but I do use it when I'm firstaider with Guiding. (Well, I keep it in my bag, but it's all in the bumbag!)

OP posts:

callmeovercautious · 01/04/2010 22:01

I would love to just have a bum bag but I work in a high risk place so get a great big bloody case to run the halls with - usually only find a papercut

Let me know if you need any more help but I think it would be a great idea to have at least one appointed person if not a 3 day qualified person.

MmeBlueberry · 02/04/2010 09:28

Our school policy is to have a first aider on every EV.

The law is different for trips out of the country, and much stricter. ISTR that a first aider is obligatory. You need to look up the British Standard.

MmeBlueberry · 02/04/2010 09:30

It is BS8848, btw

Original poster

MaureenMLove · 02/04/2010 10:18

I'll look into getting a copy of that, thanks.

I think I may be being a bit precious about this particular trip tbh! It is overseas, but it's only an hour and half to France from here, on a coach, they are going to a market in Bologne and the lead teacher is French! Responably low risk, I think. Possibly more low risk that going to London on the train for the day!

OP posts:

primarymum · 02/04/2010 11:59

All of our staff, from the Headteacher, through teachers, teaching assistants and lunchtime supervisors are first aid trained, it saves any problems!

MmeBlueberry · 02/04/2010 12:13

Is it diffiicult to get a first aider to join the trip?

roisin · 02/04/2010 12:19

Does your LEA not provide reams and reams of documents of advice? I once made the mistake of reading it all - scared the hell out of me!

Our LEA specified that a registered first aider must be present on all residential trips, and advised that there should be one on day trips. Except on 'higher risk' day trips where there had to be one.

Original poster

MaureenMLove · 02/04/2010 12:21

Well, at the moment we only have 3 first aiders. 2 are teaching staff. That would mean if one went on a trip, we'd be left with 1200 students and only 2 first aiders in school.

We are doing another round of courses in May, so I might suggest between now and then, that they invite a lot more to do it.

Trouble is, teaching staff are reluctant to do it, in case they get called upon during the day. I just think it would be good practice to have a least one first aider in every department tbh.

OP posts:

southeastastra · 02/04/2010 12:23

i think it's quite worrying to be honest that teachers don't need to be qualified. all our staff are and we just do holiday schemes.

Original poster

MaureenMLove · 02/04/2010 12:26

That's the trouble Roisin, there is so much to read and take in!

As you know, I joined this school when it was in special measures. No one had done any school trips for a couple of years and we didn't do any last year. Other things were more important. I've now taken over as the EVC and done the training, and things are improving witin the school, everyone is jumping on the band wagon, wanting to do trips!

It was yesterday, when I was signing off a day trip to France, that I got a call to do first aid and it occured to me, someone with knowledge should be going on these trips.

We don't go anywhere with Guiding without one! Even just to go to our usual church hall, for a fun afternoon, we have to list a firstaider in our plans!

OP posts:

Original poster

MaureenMLove · 02/04/2010 12:30

It is, isn't it? I think I might suggest a CPD on the next INSET day for first aid.

When you think of all the things we hear in the press about schools and childrens injuries, I think it's important.

We did have a school nurse, but she was made redunant last year and they figured they could muddle through, with the handful of staff that did have first aid training. I, of course, have the bells and whistles certificate, becuase it's essential in Guiding, so guess who does most of it! It's not ideal though, because I have another 100 job to do at the same time.

There have been times, when reception is calling for a firstaider and I'm in a classroom, so I've had to find someone to cover me, while I deal with first aid. It's not right.

OP posts:

MmeBlueberry · 02/04/2010 12:35

Same at our school, pm. One of our inset days every 2 - 3 years is first aid training.

MmeBlueberry · 02/04/2010 12:40

You need more first aiders in your school Maureen - it should be a priority.

Original poster

MaureenMLove · 02/04/2010 14:00

I know. It's ridiculous! We have 1500 students. It's not very often that it's more than a tummy ache or feeling sick, but there are occasions when we've needed to call an ambulance and I did have one that I was on the verge of calling an ambulance for, as he was having an astma attack. Thankfully, his father arrived with a puffer as I picked up the phone.

I think all the PE staff, at the very least should be trained. The PE block is the furthest point from the first aid room and that's where the real emergencies are likely to happen (and have).

OP posts:

MmeBlueberry · 02/04/2010 14:19

There was a school where a child died of an asthma attack a few weeks ago. I don't know all the details, but I think it had something to do with staff not knowing what they should do.

I teach Science and have, over the years, had to deal with burns. It's important to know what to do, but reading some posts on Mumsnet, there are a lot of scary myths about what to do for a burn. It is not common sense, and formal training is very valuable.

I am sure that anyone who has done a first aid course feels that it was well worth the investment.

The more people in society who are first aid trained the better. That is why it is a high profile badge in Guiding, and a compulsory module on DofE, etc.

roisin · 02/04/2010 18:32

All our PE staff are first aiders - it's obligatory for them!

Original poster

MaureenMLove · 02/04/2010 18:53

Hmm Roisin. I think it should be! And possibly a few Science teachers too. I shall be having words, when I get back to school!

OP posts:

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