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MNHQ

Should parents of disruptive pupils have their benefits docked

36 replies

Carriemumsnet · 29/03/2010 08:04

We've been asked on to the today programme to talk about a proposal to remove child benefit from parents of disruptive pupils at primary level. Not sure this will make a realistic difference, but what do you think should be done about dealing with disruptive behaviour in the classroom?

Going on at 8.30so all thoughts welcome
thanks
mnhq

OP posts:
MinnieMalone · 29/03/2010 08:08

Horrible suggestion. Why are primary school pupils disruptive? Poor parenting is telling only a fraction of the story!

Unacceptably big class sizes
Undiagnosed or unsupported SEN

Usual suspects.

The emphasis should be on supporting children and their parents, not punishing them.

Exclusion levels are still unacceptably high at primary level, especially for children with SEN (with or without statements of SEN). What about addressing that before taking money away from those who may need it most?

MinnieMalone · 29/03/2010 08:10

Behaviourial problems are a SEN in most cases. They should be treated as such - ie. investigated by professionals, supported by the school and parents, and hopefully overcome before a child's whole education and future is disrupted.

Writing off a child and punishing his/her parents when they are still so young is totally WRONG.

SuSylvester · 29/03/2010 08:11

no I think they should be helped of course.
what a silly article.
i cnat see how a parent threatending phyusical beatings( as htat would be the consequence ime) would help foster a classroom of good behaviour..

where DO they get these ideas from?>

Besom · 29/03/2010 08:11

Taking child benefit away is potentially taking food out of childrens mouths. That'll help then. I am very strongly opposed to this.

Agree with what Mini Malone said.

MinicronPerseiEgg · 29/03/2010 08:12

Sounds like a terrible idea to me. What if the parents take it out on their DC? I used to teach and some families used physical punishments with their children, this usually meant the children behaved worse in the classroom as they hadn't been taught about self-control at home, only fear.

It just seems too much - all stick, no carrot. At primary level it is possible to work with families, to work with the children themselves. A family treated like this would hate schools forever.

MNHQ
Carriemumsnet · 29/03/2010 08:13

Thanks minnie, agree with you. Spoke about same story tho on r5 earlier and they wanted to know about the parents who didn't appear to care that their child was swearing at the teacher or kicking and wanted our ideas on what could be done then?

OP posts:
SuSylvester · 29/03/2010 08:13

for really POOR kids from NEGLECTFIL bakcgrounds ( not kids with SEN) who misbehave its becuase they know no different

how are the parents supposed to haev a bloody light bubl moment and think " ah yes i need to do positive parenting and modell good behaviou" when they are faced with this

do these peopel ever TALK to teachers or go IN to schools?

ime disruptive behaviour is because the kid (secondary) knows no boundaries, is badly parented or has issues to do with divorce, death or their OWN learning.

SuSylvester · 29/03/2010 08:13

If parents dont care ite bcuase school failed them ime

SuSylvester · 29/03/2010 08:15

Funny as I was thinking abotu this as I trotted into school for my kids parents eve. WHY do i go? there is NOTHING to say. yet kids wiht masses to say their parents arent there

shcools need funds and help to tacle socially excluded parents who feel that schools are still dsiapproving authoritative institutiosn CONTINUSALLY out to get them

SuSylvester · 29/03/2010 08:15

and making schools an active arm of benefits will harm this relationship.

we have a family liaision officer thing at my kids primary school. gievs parenting classes, goes to visits any with long abscence etc

MNHQ
Carriemumsnet · 29/03/2010 08:16

Agree with others too, sorry just x posted, do keep thoughts coming

OP posts:
GooseyLoosey · 29/03/2010 08:16

How do you define disruptive?

My son is a bright child but has problems keeping quiet and you could call him disruptive. I have worked with the school to the best of my ability to develop strategies to help. However, there remains an issue.

If the school were to fine me, I would feel that further dialogue with them was pointless and that they saw my son as a problem deserving punishment rather than a child in need of support.

I cannot see any way in which a fine would help. If you are only going to fine parents who are not engaged in finding a solution, that will not help either. If they are not engaged for the good of their child, the threat of financial sanctions seems unlikely to motivate them.

Is there any data on whether sanctioning parents for non-attendance has had positiv results?

SuSylvester · 29/03/2010 08:17

carrie in my prof exp by the tiem a non attendance fine comes to court a) the damage has been done
b) the kid in in year 11 and no one cares so much any more

MNHQ
Carriemumsnet · 29/03/2010 08:18

It's teachers and lecturers union debating this btw

OP posts:
MinnieMalone · 29/03/2010 08:18

In cases where parents don't care (which surely must be in the minority - there is a BIG difference between 'cannot cope' and do not care'), outside agencies like SS need to be involved.

Depriving people of a basic benefit that may well be keeping the family afloat is such a poorly thought out, knee jerk response.

SuSylvester · 29/03/2010 08:18

knee jerk?
new labour?

MinicronPerseiEgg · 29/03/2010 08:19

When I taught the school made every effort to celebrate each child, to support each child and their family. A disruptive child is often very angry (whether because of home life, learning needs not being met or some other issue) and dealing with that is more effective. Treating a child as a person with valid views helps too - hurting a family financially (and by touching the sacred non-means tested benefit that all families receive) is a sure way to foster more anger.

DuelingFanjo · 29/03/2010 08:19

whas this policy plucked out if the air for a talk-show or is it actually a real political suggestion ?

MinicronPerseiEgg · 29/03/2010 08:20

ATL?

Bucharest · 29/03/2010 08:21

If we take SEN out of it, (which surely, would be the case?) and look at the backgrounds of children who are disruptive purely for disruption's sake, then I'd say, in most cases, it is because of their family background. So, their parents should be made to take some responsibility for that.

It should not, however, be in the form of removing their child benefit. That's just a silly kneejerk quick-fix proposal which would fix nothing.

Education, education, education. Etc. As usual.....is the only way to curb the sort of disruptive behaviour (anti-social behaviour type) that I presume is being referred to here?

MinnieMalone · 29/03/2010 08:21

Look, when push comes to shove, classes of 30 aren't working.

Teachers cannot cope with 30 nice, polite, biddable little angels, let alone 30 kids that may include children with English as a second language, SEN and those poor neglected, dragged up little souls with no idea of how to behave.

Cut class sizes, not benefits.

southeastastra · 29/03/2010 08:22

what a depressing suggestion

MinnieMalone · 29/03/2010 08:22

Like the Tories will do any better...

I feel like chucking my Primani specials Louboutins at the screen every time Dave Cam maunders on about Broken Britain

southeastastra · 29/03/2010 08:22

(to op)

MinicronPerseiEgg · 29/03/2010 08:24

Giving teachers support and training on emotional issues helps too - I've had support on this front and it really did make all the difference with dealing with those with challenging behaviour.