Classical Music - your thoughts please...

[MathsMadMummy]

Not really sure if this is the right topic but oh well.

My DSDs (nearly 12) enjoy a lot of classical music ('proper' classical and soundtracks like Pirates of the Carribean, Harry Potter etc), as well as pop/indie. They'll enthusiastically hum along to a lot of famous works, mostly due to them being used on kids shows/cartoons/adverts.

So why, if anyone mentions classical music, do they instantly rant about how rubbish/boring/posh/geeky it is?!?

It makes me sad. Why do they feel embarrassed about liking it?

By the way I'm not some hoity-toity all-modern-music-is-trash person. DH and I enjoy a lot of the same music as them and their older brother, as well as classical.

Any thoughts?

My 10 year old asked me the other day if it was ok if she pretended not to like opera. I was slightly taken aback, said she could pretend what she liked, but why? She explained that her friends would think she was odd if they knew she liked it. We agreed it could be a secret between us but it did make me wonder whether they were all secret opera fans.

I'm no classical music expert, but we all know what makes a good tune, and in classical music there is no shortage of them!

I enquired whether dd's school could perhaps play a variety of styles of music, including classical music, in assembly/at lunchtimes, as all they seem to have is 90s pop music (I am so sick of hearing teachers' Annie Lennox CDs...) or Lady GaGa (love Lady GaGa, but...). Anyway, I got sent off with a flea in my ear. I was told in no uncertain terms that classical music was "not inclusive" and "the children couldn't access it". [despair emoticon]

It was the same when we were growing up. Classical music was not seen as cool.

Teenagers in particular define themselves and their friends by the music that they are into. It is nothing new. Lots of them secretly listen to classical music. The ones who out themselves are usually young people who do not want to be part of a general music clique (or who want to form a Classical Music clique).

I'm having a Daily Telegraph moment here, gramercy.

I like the idea of playing classical music at lunchtime. Many of the children would probably enjoy it and those who were struggling to access it could concentrate on eating their lunch and not feel too alienated.

DDs last IT teacher used to play Baroque during the lessons.

Bollocks that kids 'can't access it' and its 'not inclusive'. If they don't hear it at home and then never hear it at school, we;; thats being non-inclusive isn't it?

When I was at primary school we got some classical music while we were coming in and settling down for assembly... things like 'Morning' from Peer Gynt and Bach's air on a G string. Come to think, casting my mind back to DDs class assemblies this practice isn't dead around here.

Gramercy, that is nuts. When I taught, we always played music to the children as they came in for Friday assembly (the big one of the week). Usually a class took the assembly and the teacher chose the music. We tried to make it relate to the theme of the assembly but it could be any style at all and was often classical music. The kids weren't from privileged backgrounds - the exact opposite in fact - and hearing different styles of music was very important to them.

Yes, sure, if there was a poppy number, they seemed to enjoy it more, bopping around in time to it, etc, but it also made them hyper and sometimes the music had to be stopped before the end in order to maintain order.

I will never every forget the affect a certain piece of (modern) classical music had them: it was a very slow piece, and the entire hall was silent and still throughout the entire length. It really was a case of music soothing the savage breast, or whatever the saying is.

I was brought up on classical music and used to get my parents to play my favourite piece of Mozart when we played musical bumps or pass the parcel at birthday parties. No child ever made any comment about it although I shouldn't think many had heard classical music before.

my kids' school is very enlightened and they listen to things like the Tallis Scholars and Mozart's clarinet concerto in assembly!

Gramercy, can't believe what the teacher said! Grrr. As PP said if the kids aren't hearing it at home, it'd be good for them to hear it at school - especially in a non-intrusive way such as at lunchtime. In junior school we used to sometimes have classical in the background (instead of silence), it was a real treat. Saying it's not inclusive is just perpetuating the myth that classical is just for posh people

Why are people intimidated by it? Is it as simple as being a matter of, dare I say, class?

I'm hoping to teach yr5/6 in a few years (studying for degree now) and I've started putting together project/lesson ideas. One of them is based around Carnival of the Animals or Pictures at an Exhibition, looking at the link between the animals/pictures and the style of music. Maybe doing pictures based on another piece of music, or choosing a different animal and improvising some music to match the characteristics of it. Would love to know what you enlightened people think

That sounds great, MMM, and to be fair, I think there are far more teachers who would plan a lesson like that than would refuse to have classical music in the school.

have you seen this MMM

OP - Sad to hear this. My 7 year old loves classical music as well as lots of other stuff. He loves melody and will hum The Nutcracker one minute and Shine by Take That the next. They're lucky to have a lovely teacher who plays all sorts of different music at their school.

Gramercy that teacher is so misguided. It's divisive not to let kids access all sorts of music. Her attitude encourages Us and Them beliefs. how sad that she thinks her kids only deserve Lady Gaga.

LilyB -- our kids' school used to play classical music including those two pieces every lunchtime. Result? My kids now salivate and whine for food whenever they hear Mozart/Beethoven/Smetana... they call it Hungry Music.

I am a secondary class music teacher.

I HATE the way adults and kids (including senior leaders in schools responsible for timetabling etc) treat classical music as elitist and only for the few.

I work my damndest to fight against the inverse snobbery.

I feel like I am battling against the tide though.

All music has great elements and all music has less great elements.

stillenacht - may I ask if you're teaching in state/private/grammar school...?

What kind of things do you do in class that actually involves classical? The coolest thing I remember doing in yr7 music was graphic scores, that was great!

Sorry you feel it's a losing battle though

I've found with my DSDs that it's not worth pushing it overtly, so I don't bother saying how great classical can be, how we wouldn't have modern music without it, how the Dr Who prom we avidly watched is basically classical!!! etc. That seemed to alienate them further.

So now I just work it into the background now and again. Last year they wanted to make a play for DH so we had a soundtrack! Cue Beethoven's 5th, Toccata and Fugue in D minor and others... we were choosing the music to match the mood of the scene.

I think there's always things that you enjoy in private I don't think it needs to refer to anything high brow.

I'm not going to publicize my lastest purchase of Hello magazine or my liking for Jedward - I'll enjoy them in private, actually I have no fondness for either - but you get my point - it doesn't fit with who I am and what is expected of the things I like. Even watching trashy TV is something I don't talk about. So when you're 12 it's not news that certain things are cool and certain things aren't - that's life.

My 6 year old ds tried to share his love of French Cheeses with a friend from school and it back fired enormously, the other kid thought he was mad and my ds learned that his love of stinky cheeses could be indulged at home but his passion for them would only be appreciated by his peers when they were much older.

Have any of you come across an artist/author called James Mayhew? He draws to classical music - we took the three ds to one of his concerts, he tells the story of the piece and then paints a picture in front of the audience while the orchestra plays the piece. Very child-friendly music like Night on a Bare Mountain. All three ds were spellbound - I'd highly recommend it.

I heard a story on the radio recently about how one school, instead of doing school work during detention, the children had to listen to an hour of classical music. Of course, because classical music is so horrible and awful the number of pupils having to do detention had fallen.

I couldn't decide whether to be more , or about it.

Julian Lloyd Webber has written some quite alarming pieces in one the papers about music in schools too.

I'd heard that story too Jeff - I was rather indignant that classical music would be seen as a punishment. Having said that, I think the pupils did find it better/more thought-provoking and it improved their behaviour etc.

Just found this Julian Lloyd Webber article, off to read it now!

And this is the New Statesman article it was referring to.

Not sure if anyone's interested, but we've only had the internet for 10 days so being able to find all this info is still very exciting

I'm music co-ordinator in a state school with a very mixed catchment. We always have music coming in and going out of assemblies, nearly always classical, sometimes world, jazz, blues, etc. I never play modern pop as they can, and do, listen to that any time they like. I put a question up on the board each week too, related to their listening.

When I do listening exercises with y6 (or any year group), they'll make sensible comments about what they do or don't like about the music, they'll jig about with enjoyment (even with something classical!) or listen attentively to something more serious. However ... if I asked, 'Do you like classical music?' I know that 80-90% of them would give a resounding NO!!! I just tell them that I know the real truth!

MathsMadMummy - I do that Carnival of the Animals idea with year 3s. They love it. We normally manage to combine dance and art too.