Do you think your DC is getting a better education than you did?

[ampere]

The question occurred to me just the other day as once again I was dealing with the blizzard of notices about school trips here and there, visiting theatre companies, curriculum information etc ...

Personally I think that my DSs ARE!

Briefly I went (latterly) to a village primary. Our final 3 years' teacher was absolutely inspirational, an older bloke (wife was the headteacher at the school with three classes, 4-11!) but he'd been a head in a secondary, a teacher at a prep and all sorts over the years... BUT he was great if you were clever. Those of us bound for grammar flew BUT those who weren't- well, I'm not sure they got a vast amount out of it, tbh. The school 'did' humiliation quite well, for example, was hugely competitive, and I don't recall one 'enrichment' activity, though we did a lot of group singing and sport (walk to the Rec!). I then went to a girls grammar which certainly, from 11-16, suited me perfectly.

My DB's experience wasn't nearly so good. He liked primary well enough but was shunted off to a dire SM along with the rest of the -ahem- 'bottom' 85% of kids! Left there with as good as nothing.

MY DSs go to a high achieving primary (8th in the county at SATS) BUT the school seems to do well with ALL the DCs, not just the very clever. They get a go at so many activities, external activities seem to be carefully selected to tie in with what they're learning, their progress is monitored to the nth degree, we know exactly how they're doing, we get 3 parents evenings a year + open days, and we can more or less wander in to talk to our DCs' teacher whenever we want. But I don't think any of this is unusual in this day and age.

The secondary to which they're bound is top of the county (state, 11-16) for GCSEs BUT again, ALL the DCs seem to be well catered for, not just the hyper clever ones. Sport, art, humanities and craft seem to be taken seriously and there are endless opportunities for a DC to explore different avenues.

So when I say 'better' I don't mean 'academic' at all. I think my DCs education is more coherent than was generally available when I was young; far more 'science' seems to go into the act of teaching and learning these days; there seems to be more opportunity available for a wider variety of personalities.

What do you think?

DH and I agree that our DC are getting/have got a better education in primary school and worse in secondary school. DH was educated in NE England, I was educated in USA. Primary school for our DC is certainly a lot more fun than it was for DH and me, and the DC love school and learning and are doing really well there.

It is difficult to tell, really, unless you have a controlled situation.

I went to a very small village school in the 70s. In some ways it was brilliant - lots of needlework, singing, country dancing, stories... all things which appealed to me. On the other hand, although I had one fantastic dedicated teacher, I remember the teacher for what would now be years 1 and 2 was extremely lazy. Even in those days my mother was that she left school at the end of the day BEFORE the pupils. She said "class dismissed" and got her coat and went home. We were still all in the classroom messing about. And I can remember now she barely taught anything, we spent a lot of time doing jigsaws and painting whilst she read Secret Sevens (actually I quite enjoyed that!).

My dd (and ds until this year) went to a very large primary school. In some ways I don't like the way it is run like a military operation and it can feel very impersonal, but on the other hand there is nowhere for a bad teacher to hide. The heads of the infants and juniors are very hot on that and simply won't tolerate substandard teaching. I am a governor so I can get a bit of an insight!

Secondary school the same: I went to a top grammar school. It was CRAP back then. Awful. The teachers were 90% nasty old birds marking time till retirement. They never learnt anyone's name, didn't like setting homework, and the school didn't seem to notice. Ds has just started at a big comprehensive. I don't think his work is as academic as mine was, but the teachers certainly seem better.

I started infants in the 60s and secondary in the ear;y 70s. I don't every remember being taught grammar and punctuation at school, whereas my dcs seem to have a better grounding in.

They seemed to cover a lot wider history and geography in primary than we did. All I remember is learning about the Vikings and making a Viking ship out of milk bottle tops.
Whereas by yr2 they had covered places like Botswana and learnt about Florence Nightingale.

Both DH and DS have dyslexic problems. DH had a really awful time at school because of the inflexability of the faddy reading methods that were used in the 60s, whereas DS has flourished because they were prepared to use whatever method worked.

My DCs go to a lovely comprehensive where they have far more opportunities than we ever did ie next week DS is taking part in National Mock Trial competition where he will go to a Magistrates Court and his role is to be a Magistrate. I can't image we would ever have that sort of opportunity. However i do agree exams seemed to be dumbed down compared to the o'levels I took in 79. I do feel that far too many children are expected to go to university nowadays, when they would be far better off being trained in the work place.

I agree with your last couple of points in particular bruffin.

GCSEs try to be all things to all people whereas at least we had GCEs and CSEs depending of which was more appropriate to your ability. Now universities are on the same hiding to nothing. All shall have degrees- thus 'dumbing them down' so the real academic need Masters degrees to get a job, as in the USA.

It's part of this daft 'We are all born equal and our lives will continue in exactly the same vein forever' that has got us in this mess! We cannot see that 'equal' doesn't mean 'same'!

I would far rather my less academic DS2 was steered towards a trade apprenticeship at 14 to be properly taught in a Technical College towards a recognised qualification such as City and Guilds than have him 'conned' into 10 GCSEs, many of which he will do very averagely in if not fail, THEN be thrust towards A levels, university etc, all of which totally wouldn't suit him! And waste many years of his young life and leave him with a huge debt.

I went to very ordinary normal school s and get a good education.

My kids get a better one as it is bilingual - wish that it had been available when I was a kid and that my parents would ever have thought of it.

My dc's are getting a much better education, I think.

My primary - small village in middle of nowhere, 40 in entire school. Had a wonderful time but learnt nothing, not high expectations, how I passed 11+ I will never know - more down to parental encouragement than schooling I think

Their primary - by Y4 I think their grasp of maths, science etc far, far above mine on secondary entry. Lots of fun as well as academic stuff.

My secondary - girls grammar, felt like fish out of water. Value put on pupil directly proportional to academic success/sports success/being right 'type'. Finally did well academically but has left me very anti-grammar.

Their secondary - good comp, academically v good but this isn't be-all and end-all - produces far more rounded students. No 'dumbing down' yet BUT have looked at some GCSE coursework and am bit concerned that content not as challenging.

They are getting a very different education, that's for sure.
Mine was a seventies hippy utopia, all arts and crafts ans self expression, a mixture of working class and middle class kids all from the local area.
I am sure my children know more than I do I don't know if they have the same opportunity for self discovery, or the freedom from hovering parents tat I enjoyed

Indeed mrsruffalo but then, we were born into a world where there were JOBS! Or at least, the expectation that we'd find a job was considerably higher than we'd dare hope for primary school agers, today, when they turn 'of age'!

My gut instinct is no. It's not that DD doesn't love her school and is thriving there, it's because I was educated in NZ without the constraints of a national curriculum. I have such happy memories of going on nature walks and making butter out of cream in primary school.

My SIL, who is German commented to me that she deliberately moved to NZ when their children were school age as she is constantly impressed by both the breadth and depth of knowledge in all the kiwis she's met. We did 5 or 6 GCSE equivalents, most students left after one year of the sixth form with an AS equivalent qualification that included English and Maths (compulsary) and we sat 5 of our version of A levels.

However, we were and continue to be crap when it comes to teaching other languages. Thinking back, I remember doing a course int he third form called 'European Languages' where we did one term each of French, German and Spanish. I remember loving that because just as you got bored of one language we changed to another.

For the first half term of our 5th form year, the year we would sit our first sset of external exams (3 hours each) we were taught how to write a short answer, how to answer multiple choice questions, how to compose an argument, take effective notes, plan an essay and use language. I think this is probably the best skill I was ever taught at school. To this day I plan reports and letters and even meetings before I get started.

Right now dd's education is better than mine was at her age (reception) - the curriculum and teaching methods all seem a lot more thought-through than they were at the primary I went to. She also happens to have a rather lovely teacher where my first one was dim and hopeless. I love the way they focus on social skills a lot because it's exactly what she needs at this age (she's only 4).
I worry about the future though - I live in an area with no choice of state secondary schools whatsoever; the local secondary used to be terrible but is currently 'improving', so if it continues to improve over the next 7 years it will be fine, if it doesn't then the combination of that with the dumbed-down GCSE curriculum will mean that her education compares very unfavourably to mine (grammar school), which was at least academically rigorous.

BUT, badgardener a 'better' education for a DC isn't to be confused with 'an academic education'!

If you were of very average IQ I think you'd find a grammar education 'very unfavourable' for you or a DC!

I think that aged 7-11 is more rushed and the children have less time to just enjoy what they are doing. There is just too much to get through and not all of great value.
I do think there needs to be more space and time for them to take in what they are being taught.
I must admit I liked being taught through topics and going on trips to the beach, water works, historical places, the theatre etc etc. There was still structure and a syllabus but just a different feel.
If primary was more like it was when I was at school in that it was varied, interesting, calm and yet fun, there may be less chldren now who are disenchanted with school by the time they are 11 as they have known what level they are and what their targets are and where they fit into the scale of where they are meant to be at that age.
I think old and new have both good and bad. It is such a shame that as education has changed, some of the positive elements have been thrown away only to be found to be of benefit later.
Will they ever get the mix right?

yes but my dd is not of average IQ, she's quite academic (and yes it is possible to get some inkling of this at 4). No idea if she would be able to get into grammar school if there was one in the area, but it is possible to see that a school that, say, only offers one foreign language when a child has a flair for languages, and doesn't have a school library, is likely to not suit them as well as a school that is strong in the things they are good at.
I am well aware that academic is not the same as good, as you might have noticed from the fact that what I said I like about her current school is the focus on social skills.
The question in the OP wasn't 'is education generally better or worse' but do you think your dc is getting a better education.

my post was in answer to Ampere.

Sadly not.

I went to absolutely lovely girls' prep schools in rural Kent with tiny classes, specialist teachers and fabulous facilities. My DD is at huge school in central Paris with huge classes, mostly generalist teachers and very few facilities.

She does a lot, lot more outside school and home than I ever did, however.

Across the board the schools are probably better but my kids never seem to get a word of individual encouragement from their class teachers. They have great relationships with their extra curricular teachers but their enthusiasm for learning is at best tolerated, at worst actively discouraged in class.

I recall teachers who encouraged me and made me want to work hard. One of my sons had a teacher like this for half a term. The other is still waiting to have that sort of rapport. I've given up hoping for it let alone expecting it. So, no. They're not. No amount of lovely trips to museums or visiting theatre companies can compensate for having day to day contact with someone who loves to teach and enthuses kids.

No - I was taught by my mother who was an excellent teacher who made it all look easy.

Unfortunately not my ds (4) who is at an apparently "excellent" state school. Every day, I find myself wondering what the Ofsted Inspector was on, to have awarded it 1s across the board. I think it is rubbishy and I am having to do loads of work in the holidays to bring on ds. He hates it too - tells me this every day. I wish I could HE but I can't do that as I would have no-one behind me and ds is liable to set his own agenda at the best of times, usually completely at odds with what I have in mind. I would end up failing probably.

Only today, he came home with no Friday words list so I have no idea what he has 'learnt' this week and needs to practice. His reading book was not changed either - well, actually, there has been no 'reading books' just story books (we have dozens of these anyway). Hate it, seriously considering my options several times a week.

Dd at a different type of school altogether - loads of camaraderie, too many proms but basically better - ds would not get into a selective school or prep; if he was capable, i'd move him tomorrow.