Abuse of CEA-Forces families

[AJSH]

Am I the only person relieved that the MOD is tightening up on CEA entitlement? For those that don't know, Continuity of Education Allowance is paid to service personnel to enable, as the allowance suggests, continuity of education (boarding school) for their children who may otherwise have to move schools frequently due to postings.

I do hope you're not mumsnetting at work!

Sadly I do not have one of the MOD posts that gives me time to surf the web....anyway, the MOD system blocks all sorts of sites deemed inappropriate to do at work this, I would imagine, being one of them. Actaully at home with kids...half term!

I'm in absolute agreement that the abuse should be clamped down on. CEA is for continuity in education and there is no upheaval required for those who somehow manage to scam the system and claim whilst still living in their own homes. The serving partner may have many posts/drafts at various locations in lord knows what time frame but I doubt any many of the wives who choose to live in their own homes would in reality consider uprooting the children and themselves leaving their careers etc and move with the draft order.

Worse still are those that have a child board for 3 terms at a school very close to the marital home in order to qualify for CEA and then that child and subsequent children attend as day pupils effectively simply using CEA to fund private school as a perk.

I've also heard of some schools offering discounts on the parental contribution (after CEA) if they refer another family . I hope that they tighten up on this too - if a discount is offered it should be from the full amount and then the public purse can benefit too.

If you live in SFA then there is very little question of you not moving should drafty require it and therefore you meet the eligibility criteria for the mobility certificate. Those who are living in their own homes and claiming are guilty of wanting their cake and eating it.

I don't understand though how someone divorced can still claim CEA as surely his marriage cat would change and therefore would no longer be eligible - unless of course he had legal custody of the children but then he wouldn't be paying maintenance for them if that were the case

My sentiments exactly lemonadesparkle. I even know someone who has purchased a property near their children's school for 'weekending'. Weekending my arse!She is there every other week whilst hubby is at SFA.

There has been talk for many years about the CEA being reduce or withdrawn but nothing ever seemed to have happend.

When we 1st applied in 2006 for eligibility to claim the "gossip" back then was that CEA was being stopped at junior level.

However, we claim the junior rate for both our girls with no problems. But then again we never seem to be anywhere for very long.

Is there an official page or announcement about this anywhere? Would be interesting to read - this is the first I have heard of this and wondering how my old nextdoor neighbours may be effected. They have been in their current posting since their son was 5 he is now 12. He started boarding last year and then a few weeks later - they moved out of MQs into their own house 5 miles down the road. I seem to recall the wife telling me - they were buying locally because they were unlikely to be posted for another 5 years or so . This is IMO the type of thing that needs to be tightend up. I cannot see the need for their son to board - well certainly not for stability anyway.

JSP 752 I think. On defence intranet but you may be able to look it up on internet. [www.serviceschools.co.uk] may have information. Children's Education Advisory Service at Upavon is the font of all knowledge with all things CEA

I sometimes find it slightly ironic that all the scandal re the MP's second home allowance related to payments of up to £22k?, £23k? pa, whereas the MOD and FCO are coughing up amounts of up to £30k pa per child to keep Officer So and So's and Second Attache So and So's little darlings in top public schools. Imagine the amounts that some families are raking in. Fair enough if they are permanently abroad (maybe. although maybe there should be limits on the type of school/annual fee level such as other foreign services have), but not when they are back here. the old 'little johnny's education mustn't be disrupted' argument is sometimes used to justify huge payouts when little johnny's parents (or at least one of them) actually spends half their time in this country.

Bell - CEA is available to all ranks.

I wish we had CEA here. I really do but the French state says it's promise to give all citizens a free state education means either we pay or they get bumped from lycee internationale to ordinary school to ordinary school to appalling quality DOM school.

I agree abuse of the system should be clamped down on but if you're at all likely to move during a child's secondary education and they have the desire and possibility to board because they're fed up of moving around then the costs shouldn't just be born by the parents.

And don't get me started on entertaining. DH is junior but we're a bilingual family so WE get to entertain English speaking officers as well as the usual stuff without any of it being reimbursed. I've moved on to discount olives and crackers, cheapie lemonade and unrefined rum sweetened with fruit. They're in the tropics now!

Okay hf128219 - we are paying not just for Officer Snottinger's child but all of them - most equitable. But why in such large amounts?? This has to be way more than MP's second home allowances - and we were cross enough about those. Like frakkin I have experience of the type of allowances paid out by other/international civil services and I also know people who get school fees allowances from multinational companies. In the vast majority of cases we are talking allowances for international day schools, at the place of posting. Where boarding schools are involved there are limits in place. And in any case these are largely private companies who answer to shareholders. Where the muggins UK taxpayer is involved there is little disclosure unless someone makes an FoI request, and few limits it would seem. What's wrong with state boarding schools? Whats wrong with transfer to day school when parent (either one) back home, or local international school?

Not all Forces Children go to the likes of Harrow or Roedean. Many go to Boarding schools like this where the fees are very little.

The contribution to fees from the MOD are approximately 2/3 of the total fees so I am unsure where you are getting a figure of £30K per child per annum.

Bellissima- Many parents do choose state boarding because fees in private sector so high as CEA does not even come close to senior school costs. International schools are not always available, as for becoming a day pupil when parents return...I wish...unfortunately you don't spend your career returning to the place you left. The whole reason you are eligible for CEA is because you agree to be mobile with your spouse. Start separating couples permanently and start watching armed forces retention drop and divorce rates rise. It's tough enough being separated for 6 months!

Oh dear - Bellissima I take offence at 'Officer Snottinger' comment. Do you actually know any oficers?
The fees (2/3s) are paid up to a certain amount only. A lot of private schools could be afforded by many non MOD families.
The whole point of CEA is to allow for continuity of education. My DD has moved schools every year/two years and although we would never choose to send her to board, I completely understand why some parents do.
I think you'll find that the tri-force system is mostly quite transparent, apart from the minority of people who abuse the system.
Apart from my DH getting petrol allowances and some food allowances for living away, we don't get any other monetary benefits. These claims are no different than civvie companies, in fact less.
Also, contrary to what people think, forces quarters aren't free.

No luciemule, but they are often pretty grim and should be

I do know officers actually! Some very nice ones. And lots of FCO officials. My comment was meant to be approving of the fact that at least the allowances were forces-wide - no offense meant. But I also recall talking to eg the Swedish diplomat who noted with some shock that his UK counterparts seemed to regard payment of the fees at Eton as a perk of the job that would continue wherever they were posted, and added that that would certainly not be the case under different systems. Don't get me wrong - I'm the first to agree that some form of education allowance is appropriate. My sister was offered a three year contract in Singapore recently and practically the first thing she thought of was her DD's education - as you would. And indeed the package would include either day fees for an international school there, or because of the child's age (early teens) a boarding school allowance here. But there's no way that would continue up to 18 if the contract was three years - a sixth form college would probably be a good solution, depending on what my sister and her DH are doing. I think that, quite seriously, unless there are some reforms the amounts being paid and the duration they are being paid for risks being seen as archaic and ludicrously over-generous (not to mention secretive) as MP's allowances - for which all sorts of 'family stability' and other justifications were put forward.

Oh and there's another slight difference in civvie companies - far less job security.

The maximum senior school allowance is £13,671 per year. The annual fees at Eton are £28,851 - so the parent will have to pay £15,180 .

If they have 3 children that works out at £3795 per month. A lot of money for most officers!

If you have kids of boarding age Bellissima, the chances are you have served for many years and are likely to continue to do so. Forces families cannot be treated the same as those on a few years contract. Completely different circumstances. As far as your sister is concerned, you said she was 'offered' a 3 year contract. Where the military want you...you go...very limited choice apart from selecting which area of the UK/Germany you get sent to, and I don't necessarily mean which town, it can be a vague as SW, SE, North etc. Then there is no guarantee.

Tbh (sorry for further post) I think that one of the main, if not the main, reasons the 'fee element' has become so anomalous are the sheer amounts involved, which is absolutely not the fault of the MOD or FCO. A friend of mine told me the other day that the fees (paid for out of private income) at her daughter's boarding school had risen from £9k pa to approaching £30k in the seven years she has been there. It is this huge rise that has made the amounts being paid - even if it's 'only' two-thirds of fees - rise so disproportionately compared to actual salaries and, say, MP's second home allowances. Or indeed expenditure on essential military equipment. But given that nobody can force private schools to charge any less (unless you actually catch them in a cartel!) then the huge amounts now being paid out does make a review of the system rather essential.

And - AJSH - my sister's offered contract in Singapore is with the same employers she has now and will have afterwards. And she is being pressurised to take it in the interests of her career - so it's not that different.

In my Eton example the MOD is paying less than 50% of the fees.

It still sounds as though she has an element of choice though. Yes, not going may impact on her career but it gets back to whats right for the child I suppose. You say your niece is early teens. I would be very concerned moving her at that point anyway.

Well I'm afraid for people in the private sector sometimes the child's best interests - education-wise- have to be weighed up against the whole family's best interests - having any money coming in at all-wise. Particularly in current economic circumstances. That is her dilemma.

And hf128219 - even 'less than half' of Eton fees now is still a great deal more than it was ten years ago. And - I reiterate - that is absolutely not the fault of the MOD or FCO.

I must say I do feel very lucky that we receive CEA, Bellissima. Our kids are happy and stable and we do not have the dramas of education when moving.